15 Meet The Doulas - A Candid Conversation About What Exactly it Means to be a Doula

This episode of Birth Story Podcast is coming to you from Heidi’s beautiful home of Charlotte, NC, and highlights 3 of the Queen City’s best and brightest doulas. Dive deep behind the scenes of being a doula with Heidi, Helen, and Sarah, and hear straight from these highly experienced women about the continuity of care for the pregnant mom.

Looking for a Virtual Doula to create a custom birthing experience and guide you through your journey to parenthood in the United States? Contact Heidi at www.mydoulaheidi.com

For additional free birth education resources and to purchase Heidi’s book, Birth Story: Pregnancy Guidebook + Journal, visit www.birthstory.com.

Want to share your thoughts on the episode? Leave a review and send a message directly to Heidi on Instagram.

TRANSCRIPTION

What does a contraction feel like? How do I know if I'm in labor and what does the day of labor look like? Wait, is this normal? Hey, I'm Heidi Campbell, a certified birth doula host of this podcast, birth story and owner of my doula, Heidi. I have supported hundreds of women through their labor and deliveries.

And I believe that every one of them and you deserves a microphone and a stage. So here we are listen each week to get answers to these tough questions and more birth story, where we talk about pregnancy labor deliveries, where we tell our stories, share our feelings, and of course chat about our favorite baby products and motherhood.

And because I'm passionate about birth outcomes. You will hear from some of the top experts in labor and delivery, whether you are pregnant and trying desperately to get pregnant. I hope you will stick around and be part of this tribe. Hey everybody. It's Heidi. Thank you so much for listening to 15.

Today is the meet the doulas and I have brought in some of the most experienced doulas. Sarah from Sage mama, doula and Helen from Aussie doula plus myself, or we're having a conversation about what the heck is a doula. How is a doula different than a midwife? How does a doula and a midwife and an OB GYN, how do they work together in continuity of care?

What does it cost? Does insurance pay for doulas? Oh, there's so many questions that we are going to tackle head on. We are all passionate about. Every woman deserving a duty. This episode is going to teach you all about what it is that this beautiful profession does and why you deserve a doula by your side, for your pregnancy, for your labor, for your delivery and for your postpartum care.

Enjoy pottery. Well, let's get started. Um, so what I'll do is I'll just introduce us, give you a break. Are you guys ready? Okay. Alright.

and getting her wiggles out. I'm Heidi Campbell with the first story podcast and today's. So exciting because I have two of the best and my favorite doulas in all of Charlotte. And we're here to talk to you, moms about all things birth from the doulas perspective, let's just roll. So I'm going to introduce myself.

I'm Heidi and my doula company here in Charlotte is my doula, Heidi. And then I've got with me, Helen from Aussie doula and Sarah from Sage mama doula. So let's go, Helen. Tell us all about you. Oh, right. Where do I stop? Okay, so I am Helen Herzig and I am the LZ doula. I have been a doula here in Charlotte for the last six years, and I have been dueling for about 20 years.

Not knowing what a doula was, but that's time for another story, I guess. But loving the child at birth community, and I'm just really happy to be here with, with these two awesome doulas. So wait, let, let's just dive into that really quick. Then you have five children. I know that. And so when was your first, your first birth that you attended was 20 years ago?

Was that your own birth or was that like a friend's birth? I went to my sister-in-law's birth and was amazed at the process of birth. And then over the last. You know, 15 years or so had been to a few other friends births, um, because I have five kids and I guess I had that calm, demeanor and, um, was invited into the birth space, which was very amazing.

And, uh, I felt very honored to be in that birth space. And then. Five years or six years ago, a friend had a dream that I was her doula and said, would you be my doula after she had this dream? And I said, well, I'm not sure what a doula does, but I can find out. So of course I went onto the internet and found out what a doula was and what a doula did.

And I said, okay, well, I'd have been doing for about 20 years on officially. So yeah, I attended her birth and it was amazing. And the, uh, Labor and delivery nurse said, you're a great dollar. And I said, well, actually I'm not, but that started my path. So I did a training and then soon after started taking, um, Delores clients and the rest is history 200 plus Burt's later.

And, um, love, absolutely love. What I do. I found out what I wanted to do when I was 47 years old. So that was 200 birds after you became a doula. So you have a whole bunch of birds is under your belt though. You became a doula nephew. Yeah. We have very similar stories than Helen too, because all of this. So for me came from dreams also.

Oh, is that right? Yeah. Story for later. So Sarah, tell us all about you and Sage mama doula. Hi. So I have been in the Charlotte area for just three and a half years. I'm doing doula work, postpartum and birth. Work for the last, um, three years, really full time, gung ho. Um, but before that I spent just about a decade working primarily with teen moms and then I would have friends and church members and community members, um, hire me or ask me to be their private doula, but really my passion for birth.

Grew out of volunteering in crisis pregnancy centers and I'm running a nonprofit ministry for teen moms. So that was my focus with birth work for a really long time was, um, in an advocacy role and doing, um, lots of community activism, promoting midwifery care, promoting, um, access to doulas. And in the midst of all of that work, I also was raising my own four babies and experiencing Parenthood.

And then allowing that. Sort of enrich my professional life. I became a doula well, before I had children of my own. And, um, I think that raised my expectations for my own birth experience so much because I had seen so many different kinds of birds and seeing the good and the bad and the ugly and the beautiful, and, um, I had a vision for what I wanted for the kind of care that I wanted to experience and the intimacy that I wanted to feel with my care providers.

Um, and I was really lucky because I had worked at all of the local hospitals when I was choosing where to deliver my first baby. Um, and I'd worked with all of the doulas nationally, so I sort of set up my dream team, um, and knew that. The hospital that I chose to deliver at, I knew all of the nurses. So even though I didn't know who was going to be on shift the day that I delivered, I knew I had a familiarity there.

I think I was just incredibly elaborately spoiled that when I walked off the, um, the elevator into the maternity floor, I feel like I, there was like a cheer. Like everyone, like Sarah is here. She's having her first baby, which is just so wonderful. I want every woman to feel that kind of comfort with their care team.

Obviously, I had a relationship already established with my care providers, but, but there also is a model for that kind of care that exists in our country. It's just, it's not out in front of the rooftops enough that you can have a personal connection with your care provider, that they can give you more than that.

10 minutes. Impersonal chart looking, you know, they're looking at your name as if you're a number. And, um, so I am really passionate about, uh, pointing women to care providers who have a more personalized approach and really get to know them and know their. Story and what they're wanting out of their birth experience, because I had that and I just knew it to be so beautiful and important and foundational for my, uh, my experience of giving birth.

We'll come back to the other babies in a minute. Let's just jump in because if moms are listening and one of the things we wanted to address here is who deserves a doula. And I think all three of us at this table and all doulas would say every single woman that is delivering a baby deserves a doula and their birth doulas in their postpartum doula is, but today we're talking about birth doula support, but that every single woman deserves a doula.

And there's a book I'm not going to re there's several books actually. And the books will tell you that if you are planning to have an epidural, that you don't need to have a doula, and my face will turn angry, mean red. When I hear this, or when moms call me that are pregnant. And they're curious about having a doula and all of a sudden you hear, but Heidi.

I might want to have an epidural. Would you be okay with that? And they were apologetic for asking. Yeah. No, it's like a knife through my heart. So let's talk about that, Helen, because. Let's talk about this happens to you too, mom. Sorry. Um, I had a mum called me yesterday and she was almost apologetic about saying, well, what sort of people, you know, what sort of women do you serve?

And I, I say, you know, a lot of moms will say, what's your birth philosophy? And I say, well, I don't have a birth philosophy because it's not my birth. It's your birth. So I am there to support you. I'm on that birth journey with you, and I will support you whatever you want along your journey. So you may say, okay, I want to have a natural birth.

I want to try for natural birth. You may be one of those moms who says, you know what? I know I need somebody to be walking along that path with me, but I know at some point I'm going to want pain management. A doula should not have an agenda or anything about, you know, related to another woman's birth.

This is a very personal, private, um, road that you were taking were along that journey with you to help you chief, what you would like to do that may change. You may decide that you want a natural birth and in that, um, You know your birth journey. You may change your mind. We are there to say it's okay.

Say whatever you want in your journey is what we want for you. And it's very important, um, that whatever the road you take, that you are given choices, your voice is heard and you are, hopefully have a positive birthday experience. Even if it's not the one that you had chosen originally along your path.

And I think having a doula there can really help in that. Pop. So, yeah, I believe so too. One of the things that I like to share with moms when they first call me and we're kind of navigating, like getting that off the table. Let me say that. I start with my first birth was. An epidural induction. I was in labor prodromal labor for five days and I was really, really tired and I was only two centimeters dilated.

And an epidural was a tool that my midwifery team and alongside with a doula. These are different choices that people helped me make five days into a prodromal labor. That was a medical tool and intervention that helped me to have a vaginal childbirth. Yes, here I am a doula. I had a dream like many moms that are listening.

I had a dream of having an all natural childbirth. I ended in an epidural. I ended in an induction, but that doesn't mean that it had to be a bad birth experience. Right. And so I think that that's one thing for moms that are listening, that I want them to hear from us is that as doulas, we are there to support port them and the vision that they want for their body and the birth that they want without judgment.

But when do you hire a doula? Who's educated. There are certain things that we are trained in to help, like when is the right time to get the epidural. And so Sarah, I'm going to have you pick up there. So I think our, our, all of our philosophies are in line. That everyone deserves to have a dual arm by their side, but what does it look like to have a doula?

Like, like some people are going to be listening and are like, I have no idea what a doula is. It does. Right. So let's, let's start with you. Like, what do you do? Um, for your clients, like what does that process look like? Yeah. So you, you used the word tool to describe, um, to view an epidural. And I think that, um, a doula brings many different tools and tricks of the trade to the table.

Um, and, and an epidural can be one of those things. Um, obviously the doula doesn't do the epidural or perform the epidural, but we can help guide clients. And informed them about the pros and cons and the timing. Um, but we also bring, um, first of all, a presence and a sense of peace to birth because we're outside observers.

We're not going through the process. We're walking alongside our clients while they're going through this journey. And, um, and we don't bring to the table the same anxieties and fears that clients walk into birth with. So we, we have a sense of trust and belief in how this works. The process works. And also from all of our experience of seeing so many VR births and seeing such variety of births, uh, we have a sense of, of what can be expected, what comes next.

So having a sort of like having a wedding planner or a tour guide, somebody who's just been there before. Or, um, and that can be informed by our own personal birth experiences. And like you said, we'll, we'll dive in and share some of our personal birth experiences, but it also just comes from the practice of witnessing so many different birds, so many different labors and acts and experiences and expressions of what it looks like to go through labor.

So we've seen, um, those like really peaceful, blissful, hypno, breathers through labor, and we've seen how they do that and what tools they use to cope with labor in that way, way. And we've seen the more primal movers and groaners and, um, and the people that are reacting to labor in a different sort of way.

We've seen it all and sort of, um, able to encapsulate all of those birthing experiences that we've witnessed and then take that to our clients and guide them with. How they can cope instinctually. What a doula does is really help a woman and tap into her own instinct, um, and, and find what feels right for her in the moment, what feels right about the next position to, to move into, or the next intervention to question whether or not it's the right choice to make, um, what instinctually feels right for that individual person as they're laboring.

Um, and so a doula is a guide. For, um, for a client back to themselves, what feels right for you? What choices are right for you, your birth and your baby. Um, and then we have all kinds of tools. Um, there are pain relief medications, but there are also are nonmedical pain relief options. And we, um, we know how to use those and incorporate them into somebody's labor, aroma therapy and music and movement and changing positions.

Um, Touch and massage and, um, comfort measures like back prep, counter pressure. Um, all of those things are, are just skills that we've picked up along the way from our training or professional training, but also just the experience of being with so many people in labor. Yeah. So it's all about the tools.

Okay. So almost 700 birds between the three of us out there listening pay attention because we've witnessed a lot of birds, like Sarah said, and just to have seen different things unfold. One of the things, Sarah, that I was. Listening to you talk. And it made me think about the different, the ways in which women labor, and you don't know what that looks like until you're in labor, even, you know, for yourself or someone else.

Having a doula also gives an opportunity to differ use fear. Yeah. See these moms that are doing great with their breathing techniques or great with their primal moaning. And then maybe there's a moment or fear sets in like action, double peaked, or with a little bit stronger, and then having a doula as a tool for you also to really help defeat use any kind of fear and kind of get back to that place of peace and stillness.

So, Helen, I want to hear from you too, when, when moms call you and say, What do you, do? You know, how are you going to help me? What do you share with them about what you do, how you take care of them? Um, basically, you know, what I do for them is my latest. Um, I'm very physical and literal in the way I explain things to my families is a doula is like having an anxiety vacuum.

So our, um, main. Thing that we do in a birth is to allay fears, to walk along the path with them. And to say a lot of the times when we're in that birth is this is normal and this is okay, this is what you are supposed to be feeling. At this time. I had a mom who was a labor and delivery nurse. Um, give birth last week and she still had those still.

She still knows she knows birth in and out, but when you get into that zone, you're very primal and you're, you, you are very, um, it's an intimate time. Um, having someone there, you know, looking at you and saying, no, this is okay, this is what you're supposed to be doing. Doulas and dads. Also, we are there just for, for dad, just as much as we are for the mum.

Absolutely. So dad may be looking at you saying. You know, would that look in his eyes of is everything okay with my wife? Yes, it's okay. This is the way it's supposed to be. It may be a silent thumbs up. It may be a smile directed at him to say, no, this is okay. This is, this is how things are supposed to be.

It's very, um, it, this is a hard time, but this is what is supposed to happen throughout this birthing process. Also with the mum. This is okay. This is how things are supposed to be. Yes, this is hard, but you are powerful. You are strong, you are doing this. So just to support, I think is really important. Um, And we are, they're aware that that continuity of care shift change may come in a hospital setting, even in a birth center setting, but your doula will be there throughout the process with you.

And I think just having that person there, um, is really important throughout the process. Yeah. Let's talk about that a little bit because typically you guys interjected right. Your philosophies are different, but like when my clients hire me, one of the things I tell them is I'm now yours from now all until the end of your, you know, journey into Parenthood.

Um, and then hopefully we stay in contact a lot longer. Yeah, absolutely. Um, but my clients like to check in, like right before they have an appointment or right after they have an appointment and I get questions like. Is there something that I should be asking my provider today, or, Hey Heidi, we just, I just walked out and I'm GBS positive.

What does that mean? So just sometimes, and even though we're not doctors, but just kind of being dr. Google, even for our moms, they're in the car, they're on their way home. Um, but really being their support person, I like Helen, you said continuity of care. And then Sarah said personalized care, because it truly is like having a sister or a mom or a best friend.

I mean, just the word doula is woman caregiver, and we are there to serve our moms and to take care of them from the moment they hire us all the way, you know, through the labor and delivery. And one of the things. People may be listening from different cities, but in our city, the, in a hospital setting, um, I'm not gonna that speak.

The birth center is a little bit different, but in a hot or home birth, but in a hospital setting, the big practices rotate so quickly that most moms will call and tell us. Well I've, I don't really have a provider. That's what they'll say. Who's your provider. Well, I see someone different every week.

That's the answer I get. Well, not when you hire a doula, right? You're you're going to talk to us. Every week, we're going to come into your home. We're going to build a relationship and we're going to be by your side, through the labor and delivery. Um, so let's talk about continuity of care. So Sierra, what is that relationship building look like for you?

What's the earliest someone's ever hired you? Oh my goodness. Like as soon as they pee on this. Yeah. Yeah, especially the repeat clients, you know, that they, they want to make sure that they book in advance. Um, and I, I really love it when clients find me early and you know, I get people who, who call when they're 39 weeks pregnant and they're freaking out at the end too.

So we, you, it's never too late to hire a doula, but when clients do hire me early, I love that I have that. The whole stretch of pregnancy to develop a relationship with them. And I had one client who said, I just want you to be my Google filter. That's what I need you for the, Oh, is that when I have a question go Google or web MD, and then I get all of the Internet's opinions and articles and there's an article for every.

Single side of the, of the argument and I just need help filtering out all of that information and, um, and knowing how to make these big decisions or how to get information. Um, and so that's often the jumping off point for developing a relationship with client is just answering questions. Um, and I always give the disclaimer that.

I am both a professional and I'm a parent with lived experiences of making decisions as a parent. And so I have my natural biases about certain parenting philosophies or medical decision, but that as a doula, always filtering out the information with also what's up. Evidence-based and best practice. Um, and so we, we bring, go to the table.

So when a mom says, well, what would you do if XYZ, or what did you do in your pregnancies? I might share that with them, but then I'll also circle back around and, and share an evidence based article and maybe send them some links and a few opposing ideas or things to toss around and think about, I'm always looking for what the good science says.

Um, that supports decision-making. Um, and I'm also open and willing to share, share what my experience was as a, as a mother personally. Um, and I think that that cultivates relationships, because if I only sent the science evidence-based articles and said, this is what, you know, this is the latest research and I didn't open up and sort of share what my, what my decision making looked like.

It doesn't really cultivate relationship. But when they can get to know me as a human being and as a mother, um, we develop a rapport that, um, that really grows a trusting relationship. Um, I think it's also so key for women in labor to know that their doula knows their life and their personality and their home and their marriage or, um, and their children.

So I know things when someone's in labor that a nurse who's on an eight hour shift. Just doesn't have the opportunity to know. I know that as a woman's hitting transition and she's getting weepy, that part of it may be that he's nervous about adding another child to her home, um, or whatever part of her life she's carrying into her labor.

I know little bits and pieces of who she is, and that changes the way that I care for her and interact with her, um, that continuity of care. Having built a relationship throughout pregnancy and then bringing that into labor and then even in postpartum is totally different than the role of a clinical care provider who comes and yeah.

Go is and has the response stability for the heart rate and the vital stuff, the sticks and how a woman is responding to labor and how a baby is responding to labor. Those are crucial life giving roles of a clinical care provider, but we, uh, we have such a different relational, emotional. The spiritual element of our relationships with our clients.

So it's such a privilege to be able to sort of exist in those realms with people, um, to know those things about their lives and what's going on in their hearts as well as what's going on with their bodies. Yeah. Such a privilege, such an honor. I mean, it's just the littlest things, you know, of listening to their stories, being witness to their stories and then being welcomed into their lives.

I mean, it's just such a privilege. And so Helen, is there anything extra special that you do in addition to what we've talked about? And I specifically know like your, your postpartum care that you have some things, and so I just wanted to you to share. What are some of those extra special things that you also do for your clients?

Ah, yes. Well, I actually have a, um, excuse me, I have a Facebook group, a secret Facebook group for my, um, birth clients. And I also have a mum's group at one of the local birth centers here two times a month, because I feel like that care, uh, not only postpartum, but when during a pregnancy is really important.

Um, like Sarah said, we make these connections with these. Women and these families that hopefully will continue on for, for our lives. Um, I think having that baby is such an intimate and powerful and strong, uh, milestone in your life that you will never forget. And hopefully having a doula there will make that a positive thing that you will never forget.

Um, Prenatally. Um, my moms are welcome to come to my mom's group whenever they like, they make connections with each other. So it's really important to, I think, have those connections in your pregnancy that you can carry through. I have friends who I met at, um, a breastfeeding group 20 years ago, who I'm still friends with.

Um, so those relationships are really, uh, very strong. And really important, I think, early on. So, um, my mom's will meet, uh, you know, I have my prenatals and my times, but any times moms want to come to that group, they're welcome to twice a month. So we build really great relationships with each other and with other moms in the group.

And also, Mmm, just the fact that, um, the ones who are pregnant when they have their babies. You know, the term mothers to maidens, I don't know who said it, but it's amazing. You know, these, all these maidens to mothers, they become after they're pregnant, they become the mothers who help the ones who are pregnant.

So it's very organic and beautiful relationship. Yeah. I love watching on social media too, and all the different moms groups where they are constantly, you're just constantly reaching out to your tribe. And so what a beautiful thing that your doula can provide you with other. Moms that have recently given birth within those, you know, months or year that you have to be supporters.

I love that you do that, and I'm really proud of you. And I think that that's amazing and it's also very, for me, it's wonderful too, because I don't want to just wait for two years until you have another baby. I love those relationships that we build together. You know, I would say I'm kind of the mum do all or the grandma doula, even though I have.

She's very young. She's very young. This is crazy. I had my first at 33 and my last at 44. So all those older, advanced maternal age, I hate that saying moms, but you can do it. I had plenty more, well, let's say five. My mom had my little sister at 44 years old. I'm 40. And I'm thinking, yeah, I could probably do a couple times see what life holds over the next couple of years, so.

Alright. So is everyone listening? Have you decided, are you pumped up or are you like hire a doula? Have we convinced you that you are on a fertility journey? You deserve a doula. If you are pregnant, you deserve a doula. If you are a woman here, you roar, you deserve a doula. And so you can find Sara at Sage mama doula.

And what's your website? Sarah Sage mama doula.com. Okay. And then Helen of Aussie doula, how can we find you? doula.com? I'll see doula.com. Okay. So that is our, that's our, that's our warm and fuzzy, but we are, we wanted to start this podcast with. Who deserves a do a lot because we believe everyone does.

And we hope that we have convinced you to start exploring your options if you're in the Charlotte area, um, you know, to call us. So let's get into the good, yeah. To start misbehaving. Now we're going to take a short break to just share a few things with you and we'll be right back with our guest. I'm so excited to tell you about my first book that I wrote that is launching this summer.

It's a 42 week guide to your pregnancy. It's a collection of birth stories. It has a ton of doula advice from all of the questions that my science have asked me over the last 14 years. It has hysterical partner tips that you will want to read to your partner. And it has journaling prompts because nobody has time to write 20 pages in their journal about their pregnancy.

So I've taken the Liberty to gave you some prompts of things that I think you might want to remember back on after the baby's born. So again, you can go to birth story.com and preorder a copy today, and it would mean the world to me. Hey guys, if you're enjoying this podcast, they need your help to spread the word.

If you know anyone who is pregnant is trying to become pregnant or just loves a good birth story. If you could send them to iTunes or Stitcher. Or Spotify or SoundCloud wherever they listen to their podcasts and ask them to subscribe to the birth story podcast. And, okay. So first of all, let's tell everybody that we're all three of us are in panic mode right now because we're 30 minutes into a podcast and our cell phones have to be turned off.

We're all on call. It's just like, it's amazing. We're all here together. How many times have we canceled this podcast? To me like four or five or five because of births. And because we have a thousand children amongst the three of us, but it's, it's really difficult to get doulas together when you have an on call professional.

So let's talk about being on call and I went, Oh my gosh, they'll go live. Um, and, uh, okay, so let's talk about being on call and let's talk about where it was the most inconvenient to place that you ever were, what you were doing when you got a phone call that said, it's go time. Hello? Okay. I have two really good ones that I love to tell my mum.

That I will be there for you. Don't worry. Um, I was on coal and Thanksgiving, so I had a couple of mums do into the new year, around Christmas time. And I just checked in with them and said, you know, I'm going to the outer banks, which is six hours drive away just in case something happens. Just let me know.

And I get a call Christmas morning from my mommy saying that my water broke. So. Okay. So I know that I'll be heading back to Charlotte. So long story short, we had a big Turkey dinner for lunch. I was ready for a nap. And then mum calls me and says, yes, things are picking up. So I drove back to Charlotte and we had a baby about it five or six hours later into, um, the following day after Christmas.

And then another time I had a mum and I was heading down to. Florida for Thanksgiving. Similar thing happened where I, I had, um, mum in labor and I drove back to Charlotte and we had a baby maybe 14 hours later. So I'm just saying this is going off track a little bit, but usually labor and birth does not happen like in the movies where you see a half hour, um, show or one hour.

Movie where the jar of pickles drops on aisle three and there's this big splash of water, water breaks. And then there's a baby with strawberry jam on it, half an hour later, it doesn't happen like that. So ladies just know that we will be there for you. Do you know, or your doula has time to drive back from the outer Bay?

And still leave her with you for six hours. So you are good. So allay those fears, especially first time, right? Yeah. Oh my goodness. So that was, those two were pretty, pretty good places, but it's worth noting too. When I hear you talk that we all have backup. Yes, absolutely work in partnership and in community.

Helen is so committed to being at your birth, that she leaves her family vacation to be with you. So I just commend you for that because that's really important when we're talking about continuity of care and personalized care. This is it. An action. It's Christmas day, your doula doulas six hours away.

And she still makes it to you, you know? So that's incredible. Okay. Sarah, the most inconvenient call, goodness. You know, they don't use the word inconvenient. I just mean like. I don't think crazy story. I, you know, I can't think of any really crazy stories about being uncalled, but life on call is just crazy.

And I think even whether you have one client a month or six clients a month, your life hangs in balance and you're just constant. Your phone is in your hand. Constant. Yeah. And you're constantly having to explain to people why you have to look at every single text message thing. And I have like a Pavlov's dog response to that ding sound of my text, that like I had to cut off people in my life who were texting me after 9:00 PM after I go to bed.

Cause I go to bed like a little old grandma hoping that I get a full night of sleep. But knowing that I'm not guaranteed a full night of sleep. And I hear that texting, you know, from my brother or my sister sending me a goofy meme and I get so mad at them for waking me up because I have trained my brain to hear that ding from like across the room.

Um, because I, I am just wanting to be able to respond to questions from my clients and also respond to them if they think they're in labor. Um, and, and that is part of the, the difficulty of being on call is that labor is. Is unpredictable and it can be really long and we could maybe be out of town or, um, or, you know, doing something with our kids in school or have other commitments.

But, um, but we are available all the time. We respond to those text messages. So life is just, it's a little crazy that there was, um, like a tee shirt or a mug campaign going around that was really popular with doulas a while ago. And it was just a shirt or a mug that would say if I'm not at a birth dot, dot dot, if I'm not at a birth, cause that's how doulas finished all of their sentences when we're invited to something, making plans, we're thinking, Oh, I don't know if I can make that appointment that week because, so, and so's do.

And the other person, if they're overdue, they might be overlapping. And we're thinking about who we're. What our client load is at all times when we're planning our lives. All of our friends know that will always come up on call. Yeah. I might be at the movies or that day. Right. If I'm not at birth as, um, okay.

So I'm going to tell me, Hey, you've got one, obviously. Hi. Okay. So this one was so super hard for me to, I almost thought about calling a backup doula. But I adored the mom so much and we had, I just, I just knew I needed to be with her. And it was the best decision I've ever made because she actually had one.

She, she delivered the largest baby. Okay. If I ever had deliver, um, almost 11 pound baby and, um, she, she had a toughly burn. She just really needed me. And so I'm glad I didn't, I didn't call anyone and I'm not going to say her name. Because she'll hear the date. Um, so my birthday is November 2nd. So every year I have a Halloween party, I mean, not any more really, because I am do toddlers at home, but I mean, it was like go big or go home my whole life for Halloween parties.

And this was my 30th birthday party. So 10 years ago it was like big one. So 30. A 30th birthday. And I mean, my best friend had like made this gigantic sign that took over the whole entire front of my house. I had a lot I've banned, there was over a hundred people there in costume and an hour into it. Her water broke and she was like in hard labor.

And I was like, That's through my house, key that one of my friends and I was like, party all night, have the best 30th birthday. And I can home in the morning from this birth. And there were just like people everywhere and beer bottles everywhere. And I thought like they, they probably had the best time.

And in the end I thought this was the best 30th birthday I could have ever had because I gave a hundred people. Most begging Halloween that they've ever had. And my joy, I got to be with this mom while she delivered her baby. The best of both worlds. Yeah. It's always a sacrifice we're willing to make. I think that's something that clients ask, like, how do you live on call?

You've got four kids, but what do you do if it's there? Birthday or a school play. And we do work in community with backup doulas so that we can have some balance. And that's really important in our profession to have balance, to be able to take a vacation, but also we signed up for this because we love what we do.

And so it's always a sacrifice we're willing to make, um, to be there with our clients. And I'll never forget the babies that are born on my children's word. Right. I have two of them, so, and I only have a four and a three year old. And so I don't know what the odds are of that happening, but you'll, you'll remember.

Oh yeah, it's all good. It's going, you know, it's going to happen. So, um, so anyway, so the next thing I want to talk about is. As our clients get towards the end of their pregnancies, our phones, like we won't hear from them for like week then. And then it's like, ding, ding, ding question. And so let's dig into, yeah.

So Helen, what's the, what's the number one question you get. At the end. Um, well I think prenatally when we do our prenatal appointments, um, the main thing I think is people will ask before they actually go into labor is how will I know I'm in labor. So we know very well that there are certain signs that, that moms will look for.

Um, which I guess we can talk about as well. So, um, that one probably be the main thing, Helen, go into it. How do you know that you're in labor? Okay. So we're digging in for a prenatal visit here. So things to look for. So, um, somebody wisely said do light do life until you do labor. I'm not sure who that was, but I thought that's a very smart one because the main thing, I think the main nugget out of, um, before you have your baby is to distract and to just live your life until you.

Notice your contraction. So that would be the main thing that I think people look at as far as when, you know, you're in labor is when you start to have contractions. So we always say, you know, just go on with life until you can't ignore your D your contractions anymore. So that would be one thing, your contractions.

Um, and then obviously there are lots of bodily fluids and functions that are going, going on, um, early in your, um, in your laboring, um, Doulas are immune to any of those things. And we're quite happy to have, um, pictures texted to us or conversations, um, about what's going on with your body. So, um, that can be mucus plug bloody show, all of the.

Different things. And if you're not, if you have a picture of, um, definitely do three hands are raised right now. So we have seen it ladies. Um, uh, so you know, all those things, what does early labor look like? What will you know, IB, um, expecting, do you want to continue on with. Different signs of, of labor or, um, so other things that we can look for, um, contractions, um, going to the bathroom a lot, that's actually a really good sign that your body is starting to make changes.

Number two. Yes. Doing, doing a poo. Yes. Who else in your life, but maybe a doula. Can you text at like five in the morning and be like, I have pooped four times and that's not normal for me. Okay. Does that mean that maybe I'm in labor? You know, that those are the sorts of things that our clients can trust us with.

Because like you said, we're immune, we're not grossed out by the picture of your mucus plug and we're not grossed out by hearing about what's going on in the bathroom. That's totally part of the deal. It's a package deal. When you get to doula, you get someone you can ask. All of those unfiltered questions that maybe you don't want to ask your neighbor or your, even your sister or, you know, other people in your life.

That's part of the deal is that we're so comfortable with it bodies and what they do. And, um, it is when there are questions that you don't necessarily have to ask a doctor or care provider, you can call your doula and, and get some information. So that's. Yeah. And we guiding them through those. Yeah. And those early mysterious unfolding, is it happening?

Is it not happening and helping provide resources and information and guidance for them? We're very happy to hear about all those things that were happening. I have so many moms that are worried about pooping on the table, like, wow, they're pushing. And this is one of the things that I always like when they call me and they're in early labor and they don't maybe even know they're in early labor and they've had like, Four bowel movements.

And that's what I use it as reeducation I'm like, see, your body is naturally like emptying itself. So like, yes. Have we been pooped on everybody? Yeah, for sure. But we wiped poop, lots of it, but it's literally, like, my experiences have been that when my moms. Poop on the table. It's just the littlest amount of poop you've ever seen.

Nobody told me. I mean, you guys ever had a big load. I mean, , I like to say, I like to say to moms, if one is, you know, talking about things, we're kind of going off a little bit, but what are things that you're fearful about? And a lot of moms will say, yes, I'm, you know, I'm worried about that. And I always like to say he, if it happens, it's usually a very small amount.

The midwife or the OB will usually have their hand, you know, down there with a warm cloth, um, helping with your, your, um, bottom, um, if it comes, it comes and it's just wiped away and then disposed of, and then another cloth is put there. So it's not something that we have to worry about when moms think about, you know, pooping on the table.

Um, That's not really how it goes down. So I like to allay those fears with, you know, it may happen. It stays in Vegas. No, one's going to be talking about that experience. If dad is his dad making a face or something, we'll be like, okay, dad, no, you know, mum's in his own. Um, so, you know, we try to minimalize that, um, you know, any anxiety about that.

Yeah. I always tell my clients that we're not going to have say, Oh, she pooped, Oh, nobody's drawing attention. So gently wipe it away before anyone. I never noticed this. And then doulas, you know, we bring out our own with therapy and we distract and maybe put on the music and it's really not a thing. And it's so not being so big in people's minds.

And I wanted to bring it up because that's one of the, that's one of the fear questions I get. Almost every time. It, and, and so I'm glad we're talking about it so that if moms are listening that maybe we can just let them not be so afraid. Yeah. I have just something else that a fear, a lot of times that, um, families will have is, um, you know, taking dad into consideration.

And mum into consideration as far as, um, are you going to be watching what's going on with your wife? I like to say, are you going to be uptown Midtown or downtown

along the way and being in the Charlotte, we, we, we say yes. So, you know, that's really important going in a lot of, I think, um, families will do with their child with education. They'll watch a video and go, Oh my gosh, that's so, you know, I can't that this is so powerful. I don't know if I can do this, but being in the birthstone of your wife, your partner is such a different experience than seeing it on an objective, you know, video screen.

So, um, Of course, we like to, when going into that space, you know, when you're seeing your wife, you know, give birth to your child, it's a totally different. Thing rather than seeing it on a video. So of course, you know, when you get into that, you want to see what the PA, what each person wants in that zone.

A lot of times dad will say, I don't think I want to see you what's going on that's you know, but in the time I would say 90% of the families, the dad will say, yeah, I think, Oh, wow. Oh my goodness. That's crazy. So even dads that are listening, this is an amazing thing. If you want to see it. Great. If you don't great, but.

It's pretty amazing when you seeing your child be born. So allay those fears. Well, do you cry? I cry every time. Do you guys cry? Yeah, I get teary. Yeah. It's pretty. It's just so beautiful. Well, you know, it's so beautiful. Okay. I have a series of questions I want to go through, but it really depends on whether or not you've had what kind of birds.

So for whatever. Way, shape or form. I, the girls know this, but for my audience, I've only attended at this point in early 2019, I have only attended hospital births only have never attended a birth at a birth center. I have never attended a home birth. And, um, it's not because I don't want to it's because a hundred percent of the people that call me are delivering at a hospital.

So that's where I'm at. So, Sarah, I know that you personally had a home birth or. Three or something. How many home births did you have to home birth? Two home births. And you've attended home birth and birth centers correctly. Okay. And then Helen, your experience, did you birth your babies in the hospital?

I had my first two in the hospital. I had my, uh, third baby in Australia in the maternity. Um, Very old. It was like call the midwife. It was amazing. Um, the maternity hospital, I had my force, a home water birth, and I had my fifth in a hospital here in Charlotte. So yeah, you've done it all a little bit. You really?

Sarah. So tell me about, in your experience as witnessing. Um, the different types of birds and if, of course experiencing the home birth, but what would you say are some of the main differences for the moms experience when they birth at a hospital versus birthing at a home birth? Sure. Yeah, I can address that.

Um, I think that the main difference, um, in, in sort of three different options for birthings setting choices is the autonomy of the birthing person. So in a hospital, there is sort of a default mode in how they care for people. They do it all day. Day in day out with lots of different people, lots of people from all walks of life, different cultural backgrounds, but they have a default sort of setting and how they care for people.

They've got nurses on shift, um, and care providers on rotating in shifts, and they just do things in a way that they do. Um, and so there's, you're a bit more anonymous. When you go into that setting where they're seeing lots of people all the time, and then the birth center setting with midwifery care is a bit more personalized.

There's a, there's more time in prenatal to develop a relationship. And though you do have a rotation of care providers, you've had an, a chance to establish a relationship with those care providers. Centers are also designed with a bit more autonomy for them. The birthing person so that, um, maybe they're set up to support natural labor a bit differently than in a hospital setting, which has a default mode of more medicalized birds just by, um, because they provide a higher level of medical care.

Um, but the birthing center is. For setup for low risk. So, um, it's designed to accommodate more freedom of movement, being able to eat and drink freely. There are less restrictions on the laboring person, um, and in a home birth, um, the person isn't on in their own space. And so they have the greatest amount of autonomy in a home birth.

Um, so really it's there, you're operating in choosing very different paradigms in, um, and how. You view your birth experience when you're making those decisions? Um, so it's really, really personal. It depends on the kind of relationship you want to have with your care provider and the kind of autonomy in decision making that you want to have.

Um, you have the most power of decision making in a home birth setting. Um, and, and then you are, if you're going to another place, another care providing, um, setting, then your, um, sort of. You're subjecting yourself to their policies and their default mode. Um, so, so it's a very, very personal decision for somebody to make when they're deciding where they want to have their baby.

Yeah. So I interviewed episode three of the podcast was Tori Jones. She's the CEO of a bad company called ECL triangle and ECL, meaning, you know, midwife, I've got the Mayan word for midwife and I just loved one of her home per story. She was like, well, I just delivered them behind the couch. Right. So total girl damn her.

I delivered her by in the garage, but just total, you know, freedom to move around. And so Helen tell me, so about three years ago, the birth center came on the scene and our city. And so I want to hear about, you know, your experiences at the birth center for, from the moms that are listening. Why would a mom choose.

You know, a birth may be at a birth center. What does it look like from your perspective that's different than burning at a hospital? I'm glad you asked that because I was just thinking when Sarah was speaking, um, is very important for a family to decide where the best place. For them to birth their baby is, um, a lot of my families will say, because I have my mom's group at the birth center, you know, they come, um, they come in and they see, you know, how the surroundings is.

It's very, it's beautiful. It's like almost being in your home. Um, and they say, well, should I have the baby here? Or should I have the baby at the hospital? I'm conflicted. And I always say, you know, this is your decision as a family to make. To have both and see which you feel better about make a list of pros and cons of each place.

And then basically you have to make that decision, um, with your family, what that looks like. Um, so the difference between having a birth at the birth center, as opposed to the hospital, it's like Sarah was saying, you have more say in what you're able to do, you're able to eat. Are you able to drink? Um, you don't have as many parameters put on you as you would in the hospital setting.

Um, and it's, it's, um, I personally love having births at the birth center. When my family say that they're delivering at the birth center, I do a little happy dance. Uh, again, the, you know, there, there were midwives on call, so there is sometimes there's a shift change, but that dual of being with you is that, that continuity.

But, um, I really enjoy. Birth center setting. I love it. So I want to ask you about a couple of things. So I've toured the birth center and they have like the Pilates ladder. And then I don't know if they keep Rebozo, but I know they have a birthing balls in different things. So just maybe just share a little bit about.

You know, not that are listening and they're thinking, Oh my God, I don't know what to do with. And I can't, I don't even know what cause they maybe get on Google and see a couple of different positions, but there's some really neat things at both the hospital, but specifically the birth center that are, um, kind of tools that we use to progress leaper.

And so we just share, I bet about, you know, So, like you said, the Pilates bar, which looks like a big old ladder, which I did have, I'm a mum have a baby there not long ago. And her son who was then with her in the birth room, um, it was climbing Pilates bar. So polite if I can be a jungle gym yeah. For a three year old, or it can be a tool that's used for, or labor laboring mom with a Rebozo, which is basically a, um, a big scarf that's used in labor.

So, you know, we use those tools. The beautiful big birthing tubs are a fantastic option. We've had lots of mermaids and mermen babies born in the tubs there. So, you know, doulas call, uh, the birth tubs, mother nature's epidural. Oh, absolutely. So, so they are fantastic. Um, you know, hydrotherapy is of great way to labor.

So at the birth center, there's this fantastic tub in the middle of the room. There's this wonderful double, um, Queen size bed. I think that, uh, um, you know, mum can labor and if she's needing some rest, the one thing that you can use, if you feel like you need to is nitrous oxide. So there's that option.

But of course, in a, in a birth center, it is a, um, a natural birth, but share a little bit more about the nitrous oxide. So for moms that are listening that don't know, so share a little bit about the administration of the nitrous oxide and how long it lasts. Right. So with the nitrous oxide, I would say that most of, um, the families that I've served in the birth center, it's not usually something that most of them use because just the setting and the fact that you're allowed to labor the way you would like to just make such a difference in your progression.

So, um, but sometimes if mom's having a hard time, you can use the nitrous oxide and the way that's delivered is the mum. Hold that nitrous oxide to her mouth herself. She administers it herself and it doesn't really take away the what she's feeling, but it just takes away her anxiety. So there we go. We have another anxiety vacuum, right?

You can trade trademark. You can see, I will get my tissue made. So, um, So that can help, but it only, it will help for a certain amount of time. And, um, you know, then mom usually doesn't need it, um, closer to when she's having the baby, that can, it can be a little help there, but, um, the moms might know the term laughing gas.

Exactly. Yes. Yeah. It's the same thing. Yeah. And it's yeah. Then used for generations now in the UK. So yes, it's been. Shown to be safe and effective. Um, we're just slower in the U S to catch on, but hospitals are starting to catch on. And so they're, it's hope, uh, because it's, uh, it's a fantastic option. I'm an alternative to other pain relief methods that are longer acting.

It's very short acting. You can try it for a few contractions, see how it's working. And maybe that's all that, that mom needs is just a few moments of relief. And then it's done and it's out of her system. It doesn't pass. Through to the baby. So I feel like all doulas should be campaigning for hospitals to get nitrous oxide, because it's just a fantastic tool.

I used it for number three in Australia. Yeah. So I had a little bit, yeah. Yeah. When I went home for my Aussie baby, I want some and to listen, dad's can't have any, we always make that joke like right here. Oh, another thing. I didn't mention about the birth centers, um, is they have the essential oil diffusers there.

I always bring mine, um, to my births anyway, but that's something that you can, um, use while you're there at the birth center. Um, so the environment is very much taken care of. Um, so that mom and dad feel comfortable and, you know, if we're, we are in a hospital setting, I think a lot of the doulas do the same thing.

And we want that environment to be very welcoming. I like to say it's very Zen and Namaste day and, you know, we want to have, we want to build an environment that is conducive to, um, a peaceful. This. Yeah. I always say I'm not an interior designer. My house is like a rack of got four kids. It's crazy. But when I get into a hospital room, I go.

All out for my clients to make that environment as nonclinical and homey and cozy, um, and create this sort of an oxytocin, rich environment. So I bring twinkle lights and I bring, I buy a colorful fleece blanket for every client that gets thrown over that, you know, white hospital sheet. Yeah. And it just personalizes the space I bring.

Flameless candles and the aroma therapy. And then we work together to create a personalized playlist. So it's all very curated space that feels personalized and homey me even in a clinical hospital setting. So I'm so even clients who are not choosing that more at home, like birthing center can have a beautiful experience in their environment.

And we talk a lot about what the environment needs to feel like for that individual. To feel the most comfortable and what it needs to smell like and everything it's a little bit different for everybody. I was thinking as you girls were talking, I was thinking, is there any other tools that I use? And so, um, I do bring a Squatty potty to every birth, um, just to kind of when moms are laboring just to open the pelvis and to make sure.

That position a little bit more comfortable than flat feet on the floor. Um, and then I have two different, really expensive massagers from Brookstone that was still a company. And, um, but they do heat massage. So it's always nice because. Especially if there's a long labor and, um, the doulas, a little tired and mom's like hip squeeze, as, you know, we didn't even get there moms.

It's like, we're on our 30 and every conducted like, Oh my gosh, I'm gonna have to trade with dad for, you know, or partner further in it. Um, but that sometimes I will use the heating pad or that, um, heated massagers. That they put in their arms. Oops, I'm hitting the thing, but they put them into their arms and then they can put it anywhere on their back and shoulders.

Um, and then the lavender, um, race bags to heat up in the microwave and lavender ice claps. The reason I'm going through all of this is that if moms are listening and you're, I want to be careful because doulas costs money. So if you are, Oh my gosh, Helen is a thing. Thank you. All labor essential blend. Oh, that's so lovely.

This is one of my favorite things to talk about with doulas, because after doing this work for so many years, I still find new things that every doula brings. Two births. You know, like if we, we could go to every doula in the city's birth bag and we would all have different tools that we've all sort of cultivated and chosen over all of our experiences to find the most sort of essential items to bring to a birth.

And it's all different, but I love that. Every doula works really hard to figure out what things really benefit her. You can fit in a bag because we can't bring in 10 bags, you know, like we would like to. So it really is. Oh, give me some more of that. Oh, it's Aussie doula. Oh, I'll have to kill you. If I told you to hire, hire someone, to get you get the spray.

I wish everyone could smell this, but no. So I really wanted to transition to this. Because while we say every woman deserves a doula, one of my main reasons for starting this podcast is I hope that this is a platform at some point where insurance companies and hospitals open their eyes and see that women are having better birth outcomes and costing the system and the state less money.

And part of having this conversation and us talking about all these tools is that there are going to be many women who cannot afford our services because they don't have an HSA account or an FSA account. Their insurance company does it. It happened to be a T and T. United health care, which is in our area, the only employer that I have found to provide doula services, this is a huge thing.

Thank you at and T for believing in your, um, in your mother's and your father's and for providing doula services. But we're saying all these tools, and I'm asking all these questions for a reason, because if you're listening and you can't afford a doula, be paying attention to everything that we're saying about.

How to take care of yourself or how your partner, or how your sister, or how your mom could, could take care of you in childbirth. If you cannot afford, I do a lot. And we're just going to continue on this topic of, and I'm just going off on a little tangent here. Um, but also right here in our community, we have a ton of doulas that are looking for their certification, um, birds, or that are new newer doulas.

And so, um, I will give a big shout out to your Charlotte doulas.com as a directory here in Charlotte of our doulas. And if every city doesn't have a directory like that, they should, you're in it. If you're in another city and you're listening, go to yours or Charlotte doulas.com and look at that directory because it's powerful.

It helps moms fine find the right doula for them by reading all of their profiles and websites all in one. Place. So they're not just, you know, going into Google hell cause your best fit for doula might be on page 16 of Google and you may never find out. So you know that we have a resource here and I hope all cities will start to do that.

It must've been a pretty amazing person that started that Heidi might have done it a couple of years ago. She's not going to take it. She she's amazing. Well, let me just re let me just say this. I have a master's degree in business and a concentration in marketing. And I have a pretty good website and I figured out a little bit of SEO and I was getting a lot more inquiries than I could handle.

And I also didn't think that some of them, the women that were calling me that I was the best fit for their doula to be their doula, but they weren't finding the right person. And I just, it just got under my skin. I wanted to create a resource for moms that made it easy for them. With everything that they had going on in their pregnancy.

I didn't think finding a dualist should be something that was difficult or challenging. So very simply my husband and I created the website. So really I do hope that other cities will catch on and do a similar website, you know, to that. So that was just like a little side tangent, but now let's get to hospital based births because we're coming to the, towards, you know, nearing the end of our podcast time.

And 92% of women in our country are delivering their babies. In a hospital with an epidural. So likely 92% of people, women that are listening to this podcast are like, I'm so glad that you just walked out to me through that birth center. We don't have one in my city, or we walked through a home birth legal in my state.

I'm going to the hospital. I think I want an epidural, you know, so let's kind of talk about, I love our house. Yeah, I have a lot. We have hospitals. Yeah. But no institution that has this volume is I don't think right now they're paying enough attention and doing enough. Market research and focus groups and connecting with the doula community to really understand the patient experience.

So if you're listening to this podcast and you're in the Trinity and you are part of a big healthcare system, then I really want got you to, um, pay attention to this conversation because we are the voice right now for the moms that are kind of voiceless. When they come into labor they're voiceless. And if you don't have to do a lot, they kind of remain voiceless.

Right. And they certainly don't follow up afterwards because they're tired to even fill out your survey on how their experience was. So let's rip it open. The first thing that just fires me up is, and I talked to the, the oldest midwife. In our city about this and it just, I think, fired her up too. I think it's barbaric that when a mom is coming into the hospital with a doula, especially, and we know they're not one centimeter dilated, even though we don't check their cervix, we know from the signs and symptoms, the first place that they go is a tree room.

And let me tell you that recently it's been redesigned to be partitioned by curtains. Hmm. So I will be in there and moms are deep into labor seven, eight, nine centimeters dilated. And all of a sudden they're thrown in a triage room and they're partitioned by curtains with seven other moms in labor. How is this?

Good patient care and good patient experience. When you feel like you have to be quiet, because guess who also allowed to be in the triage room, the eight other husbands or partners that are sitting in a chair, and now they're separated, separated from their partner and their partner is in a bed. The labor process has completely halted.

There's a fluorescent lights everywhere. And the through a curtain, there is another woman trying to quiet her labor sounds and then another woman. And then another woman, because it's the busiest hospital. One of the busiest hospitals in the city, that's my personal, I think it needs to be, if you're going to triage, I think it needs to be a private room.

I think that your doula needs to stay by your side and never be disconnected from you. The personalized care. So I hope someone's listening to this. You can hear me. I get all you guys can jump in or you can, we can move on to the next one. I have not had that specific experience probably cause I go to different hospitals more frequently.

So I haven't seen that, but, um, so not to speak specifically to triage, but I think just in general, um, over the last. 10 or 15 years that I've been doing doula work. I've seen a tremendous shift in hospitals, at least attempting to answer consumer demand for, for differences and for change. So we see things like the baby friendly initiative or the family centered care initiatives, where there are standards set out.

For hospitals to follow in with routine care that accommodates what families are looking for. So like 10 or 15 years ago, you had to have a birth plan. If you wanted something like skin to skin care with your baby after right. Immediately after delivery, it wasn't, um, as well, um, Promoted in hospitals and it wasn't broadly practiced, but now it's pretty broadly practiced that baby's got yeah.

Directly onto mom, as long as there's no issue. But that sort of change came about because of consumer demand an advocacy. Um, not just because the doulas were the ones ringing the bell and saying, this is wrong. This practice needs to change, but because mothers were eventually speaking out. So when I see issues in the house, But all system, I really encourage my clients to get involved in advocacy after the fact to be, to become part of a rallying campaign for access to water birth, or for access to baby friendly practices or for private triaged rooms.

It wasn't that long ago. It wasn't that many general that are all of our mothers were given a standard routine of an animal. I'm a shave and . And then a generation before that all women were laboring in shared rooms, laboring and giving birth in shared rooms and unconscious. So our practices changed because of consumer demand.

Um, so I'm always guiding my clients back to, um, the importance of sharing their stories and their experiences, and going back to the hospital and saying this practice needs to change. Um, so I'm amazed that there was it's a hospital that still has doesn't have private triaged rooms. So old school, and that definitely needs to change that we could go on and on about the things that need to change, but it's going to have to come from consumers, from the ones who are actually still giving birth and still their money is, is funding the hospital.

So if moms are listening right now and, and we've convinced you that you need to do a lot, right. Let's talk about when you're shaping your birth plan or you're thinking about the people that are going to be laboring with you in a hospital and what they need to advocate for. So let's just kind of open up that conversation a little bit, and I'm going to start with you Helen, on some of the things that, um, need to be advocated for still.

Um, even though we've come a long way besides triaged, let's be kind, even though we've come a part of the way, what would you guide moms? And, you know, when we're with our moms, we're advocating for them because we're their doula, but how can they advocate for themselves beforehand? Here's an example. If they want to have a water birth, but they're delivering at a hospital.

Oh, okay. Um, going back to a little bit what Sarah was saying. I think the change, um, we can educate our clients and then they can speak for themselves. Um, I don't like to say that we advocate for our clients. I like to say that we, um, kind of give them, um, prompts to be able to advocate for themselves. So in the case, say a mom, um, Wanted to do delayed cord clamping, but the, the provider and the hospital did it immediately.

Um, that's something that is changing now in the hospitals where they will delay the cord clamping for a certain amount of time. Um, but if in that case, the mum was, um, you know, the. The doctor was about to cut the cord, I would say, Hey, so, and so would you still like to delay the cord clamping, then she has a voice to say, Oh yes.

Could you hold off on that? Dr. So and so, so giving the mum that, um, voice in the moment is important, but advocating for themselves before just asking all the questions, you know, if you have, um, concerns about things before. Um, the birth, talk to your provider about that and ask them, what does this look like in this scenario?

How do we, you know, um, well, you know, basically how can I help myself in that situation? Yeah, yeah, no, I think that that's a really good point. And one of the things here's an example is that, um, when you're GBS positive and moms call me and they say like, what does that mean? Okay. Well, making that time to talk to your provider about.

What are the, why would I have antibiotics and ministered? How long does it take the antibiotics to be administered? How often do they have to be administered? What is the protocol? If I decide to not administer antibiotics, talking about evidence based birth and, um, can you get your provider to show you some research on both sides?

So yes, here is some evidence on using the antibiotics. If you're GBS positive, but here are some education on what using antibiotics and labor does to the gut. Um, microbiome also and what that means longterm, um, for you or for your baby and what the consequences of that may be. So that, so that moms understand that there's a balance when making those decisions.

Um, that just because we studied one thing and seeing an outcome, did we study the other side of it and see what that outcome, you know, is also Sarah is like biting. Yeah. I'm sorry. So I think that one of the. The most foundational things that we can give to laboring women is the idea that they are consumers in this process and that, um, to shift from the mentality that they are patients and that that pregnancy is an illness that needs to be cured or treated, um, to, to understanding that it's a normal human experience and they are consumers they're shopping for the service that they want.

So they are paying their care provider to provide a service. They're paying their choice of birthing setting. Um, and, and it to view themselves as consumers changes everything, they are the boss, the woman in labor is the boss. And that starts at the beginning of pregnancy when they're choosing their care team, um, and shopping around.

And so asking for questions about, um, rates of  in sections and rates of epidurals and rates of episiotomies and, um, Will their care provider, provide them with the experience that they're hoping for elements of their experience. There's no guaranteed outcome when it comes to labor, but are you choosing a care provider who supports your values around the experience?

What do you value out of, um, the kind of care that you're seeking and how are you going to choose a team that really sets you up for that kind of success? Uh, that is the foundational beginning step when it comes to advocating for what you want out of the experiences, viewing yourself as a consumer.

You're shopping around. I love you. That is so well put, I mean, just thank you. Thank you to everybody from everyone. Who's listening to. So as we wrap up here, For moms that are listening, that are pregnant and as your quote due date approaches, Sarah and Helen. And I just want to kind of speak into you a little bit as you get into those last, um, you know, maybe those last couple of weeks.

So thank you for listening to our podcast. And hopefully you've learned a lot from us. And I just want to share with you that your due date. Is arbitrary that most women deliver their first baby at 41 weeks and one day gestation. And then I know that you are uncomfortable and I know that you have to pee every two hours and that you're not sleeping, but I just want to remind you that you're okay.

You were born to do this. You are deeply, deeply loved by your creator. And the three of us are we're channeling you somehow today. And we believe in you and we believe in your divine power and we are here for you and cheering you on through your birth. No matter what that looks like. Beautiful. So I, I love to tell women that the end of pregnancy can be a really special time.

And, um, I think that we'd love to talk about how uncomfortable it is and how hard it is to get a good night's sleep and the anxieties and worries about when this baby's gonna finally make their appearance becomes the forefront of. Focus, but, um, but you don't get to be pregnant with this one, baby. Again, it's the, it's, it's such a special time.

And, um, so I love to help clients think about ways that they can really enjoy the last stretch of pregnancy and not just be so focused on when is the baby coming and how do I get into labor and trying all of the natural labor induction things. Um, I think you can make it fun and lighthearted too. To plan a special date night once a week to create memories for the end of pregnancy before or before.

Life is just totally upended and changed by the Bible, welcoming this new baby. So make special memories, make a bucket list of things to do at the end of pregnancy that you won't be able to do again for a long time. And then there's. There's no indulgence. That's too much at the end of pregnancies. So I send all of my clients for a prenatal massage at the end.

And then that last month, um, I think you can go for pedicures and go out dancing and hear live band and go to your favorite restaurants and take in a few extra prenatal yoga classes, just indulge and pamper yourself in whatever way that can be. And if you don't have the budget or the time. For, um, for luxuries then even just a us soak in an Epsom salt bath is just perfect.

Um, a routine where you listen to your labor, relaxation playlist and take a bath. Um, that's great preparation for labor, but it's also just really relaxing and pampering for this last stretch of pregnancy. My favorite one to say to my moms is the way you have a baby is to forget you're pregnant. That sounds very counterintuitive, but when you're relaxed, your body is just doing what it needs to do.

You will have your baby. It's like a piece of fruit on a tree. Um, when you go to twist that Apple on the tree, if it's ready, you're you're, the, the fruit will just fall from the tree, but if it's not ready, you need to wait another day for that. Beautiful. So that is also like your body. Okay. So my answer to a woman who is anxiously awaiting the birth of her baby is to say, forget that you're pregnant and just go along and do your life as you normally would any other time, any other day.

So the, the process for your baby to be born is very much the fact that you are, um, able to be relaxed and let your body. Listen to its own cues and do what it needs to do to have this baby. So I always like to say, make plans that you have to break when you have your baby. So like Sarah said, go for maybe an induction massage, go and have the pizza at the local pizza shop that is supposed to, uh, bring on babies.

Um, have a date with your oldest child or your, your, your toddler or whatever that looks like. So, you know, enjoy those lines. You days don't wish that time away that baby will be here before you know it. Yeah. Everybody of course will be checking in on you. So I also like to say, turn off your phones, turn off your social media and let people know when that baby is earth side, but it's very important to enjoy those last days before this little one comes earth side.

And, um, they will be here before you know it. So enjoy your pregnancy and enjoy your wonderful births. Thank you, everybody for listening to the birth story podcast, and we hope you will tune in and join us next week. So once again, I'm here with Helen from Aussie doula, C doula.com and Sarah with Sage mama doula.

From Sage mama.com and it has been my pleasure to have you thank you for helping to just support and educate moms that listen,

thank you for listening to birth story. My goal is you will walk away from each episode with a clear picture of how labor and delivery might go, and that you will feel empowered by the end of your pregnancy to speak up plan and prepare for the birth you want. No matter what that looks like.