26 Compare and Contrast Home Birthing V.S. Hospital Birthing With Willow Wisteria Host and Mom of 6 Jennifer Farnham

Some of you may already be familiar with Jennifer Farnham as the CEO of Art of Natural Wellness, host of the popular YouTube channel Willow Wisteria and author of the children's book Dear One, Be Kind. For those of you who haven’t yet been introduced to this amazing woman, Heidi sits down with Jennifer to talk about pregnancy, miscarriage, divorce, female entrepreneurship, and finding her soul’s true match in this episode of Birth Story Podcast. Jennifer's favorite baby products are the Ergo and Tula wraps.

Looking for a Virtual Doula to create a custom birthing experience and guide you through your journey to parenthood in the United States? Contact Heidi at www.mydoulaheidi.com

For additional free birth education resources and to purchase Heidi’s book, Birth Story: Pregnancy Guidebook + Journal, visit www.birthstory.com.

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TRANSCRIPTION

Does a contraction feel like? How do I know if I'm in labor and what does the day of labor look like? Wait, is this normal? Hey, I'm Heidi. My best friends. Call me hides. I'm a certified birth doula host of this podcast and author of birth story, an interactive pregnancy guidebook. I have supported hundreds of women where their labor and deliveries, and I believe every one of them and you deserves a microphone and a state.

So here we are, listen each week to get answers to these tough questions, birth story, where we talk about pregnancy labor deliveries. Where we tell our stories and share our feelings and of course chat about our favorite baby products and mother. And because I'm passionate about burnout comes, you will hear from some of the top experts in labor and delivery, whether you are pregnant, trying desperately to get pregnant, or you just love a good birth story.

I hope you will stick around and be part of this birth story family. Welcome to episode 26. Today is me Jennifer Farnum. She's the owner and CEO of the company are of natural wellness. She runs the very popular YouTube channel, Willow wisteria. She is also the author of the children's dear one, be kind.

She is my own personal bank and belly binding designer. Today, Jennifer brings us lots of lessons on motherhood and pregnancy. As she talks through the labor and deliveries of her first five children. Hey, Jennifer. It's Heidi. How are you doing this morning? Hey, Heidi. Wonderful. How are you? I'm good. I'm so excited to talk to you today.

Oh, it's a pleasure to be here. Yes. I read your bio and there's so much in it. That's just, I could just have 10. Podcast episodes on each topic. And I was hoping before we get started, and we share about your upcoming pregnancy and birth with your sick child, and talk about your birth stories with the first five.

Can you just share with our audience, like you're such a big person in the, in the birth world and I want everyone to know. All about you and also how to get it in touch with you at the end of this podcast. Absolutely. Absolutely. So, yeah, I'm, I'm pregnant with my six now and I do have to apologize bowl of grapes here.

I've suffered from just horrible mornings sickness with this one. My midwife reminds me the more babies you have generally the, you know, morning sickness gets worse and Oh my gosh, I'm feeling it. So, uh, I'll try not to crunch into the mic at all, but, uh, I think everyone who's listening could understand, Oh my goodness.

I have just been useless lately, but, um, five kids. Yeah. I had two in the hospital and three home births and, um, and that's, you know, my experience with having my children in the hospital. My first two. Is actually what sent me down the path of getting into being a birth worker. And so I, you know, while I kind of look back on those experiences and, uh, have mixed feelings because it was this great introduction into a life that has just been so passionate and meaningful for me, but, um, Yeah.

I had my first son in the hospital and I hit just about every obstacle that you could possibly hit that, that kind of snowball effect of, you know, I was laboring too long. And the, um, you know, the heart rate was kind of going down because I was in, you know, 36 hours of labor. And so they were threatening to do a, um, A Syrian section because his heart rate was dropping.

It was just one thing after another. And so ended up going in wanting to have a natural birth. And I had an epidural and that was disappointing for me. I wasn't expecting that, but the Pitocin and you, you know how it goes, it's just that, that snowball effect of, of different issues that arise. Yes. And we'll see right there, 36 hours in the flavor is so long.

And most of the moms that I work with and that I interview will say that the epidural was more a result of exhaustion than it was pain, because there'd be six hour degree absolutely going in and, um, Yeah, I didn't know any better. And that that's where all of this came from. I did all my research in, you know, the normal baby, the books that, that they don't really go into to depth about empowering yourself.

I didn't go in prepared the way that I would. I want other women to be prepared and, um, I didn't know the options that I had and I take full responsibility for that. And so that's why I wanted to make myself available to other people so that they can learn that they do have other options. You don't have to lay on your back in.

A hospital. That's going to slow down your labor, you know, um, you, you don't have to go and take the Pitocin. They're not, they're trying to rush you through is what my, my final, um, consensus was. I was taking too long, the Friedman's curve. So I'll probably link to that. So it's outdated. It doesn't make sense anymore.

And still almost every hospital throughout the country is still using this old Friedman's curve to, um, you know, time labor. It does amazing, isn't it? Yeah, it's amazing. And it's like in the 1950s or sixties, and it doesn't make any sense at all. And at the same time, they're slowing you down, right.

Everything they're doing, you know, lay on your back, I'm going to you, you have to all this stuff so that you can't move around. And Oh my goodness. It was just awful. So anyway, I somehow made it through, got the epidural, had the baby, uh, vaginally and, um, and he was healthy and it was good. Um, but I struggled with breastfeeding and they did not want to let me go home.

Without getting, you know, cause I was adamant, I did not want to, to bottle feed. And so they made me stay an extra day. Um, my son had jaundice. He was a little bit early at 37 weeks. So it was just traumatic. We went home with the Billy Reuben lights. I wasn't able hold him. Oh my gosh. I still am. Heart. Just hurts for thinking back on that experience 13 years ago.

And so when I had my second son. I still wasn't really aware that I had options of home and that kind of thing. But I did know that I did not want any intervention. Right. I was able to get through that entire hospital birth without any intervention at all. I had my, my husband at the time actually block the door.

Believe it or not. And I had one nurse in there that I trusted and I would not let anybody in the room. I was ready to push and I really didn't even need to push. I think I had that beautiful, wonderful, full, um, uh, what is it called? A newborn ejection reflex. I just think is just the coolest thing. He literally fell out.

Painless. It was just an amazing experience, but I really attribute that to the fact that I set up up a environment for myself that was, um, peaceful and calm even within the hospital setting. So that was part of what I took with me when I became a birth and postpartum doula. Is that. You can still have that experience in a hospital.

You don't have to be in a birth center or a, you know, your home to experience that. Yeah. If you're not comfortable with that, it has a lot, it has a whole lot to do with where you're comfortable. And if. You know, if there's first time mamas that are just not comfortable with having a home birth, they really do want to have the resources that a hospital has.

They can still have that experience I did, but I was just more informed and prepared. So let's unpack that a little bit because I was taking notes as you were talking because so much was jumping out at me. And the first question I have is you had said, I just didn't know better. And I was wondering how old you were and, um, like what your life circumstance was with baby.

Number one. Sure. Sure. So my life was very, very different. Um, uh, I was married to my first husband. Um, he and I did not have a very strong relationship and I did not have a good support system there. Um, I was also working, I was a financial advisor. Believe it or not at the time. Um, I was on a path that wasn't me.

Uh, I was trying to kind of conform my life to something that, um, I, my husband and I had agreed to. And, and it, it, you know, I am, I'm kind of embarrassed to say that it, it took me a little while to finally say, Hey, This is not me. This is not where I want to be. This is not who I am. And, and this is not how I want to impact the world.

And so, you know, I think a lot of the being uninformed was just. Me kind of running away from what I, what was true to me, my, my truth, you know? And so, so you know, that that might be a little bit more information than you are getting at with that question. I think it's beautiful because it's. So important.

I try to tell everyone, like your life circumstance, your perspective, your, um, preparing or lack of it's going to translate to the type of birth that you have. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And let's laugh a little bit together as two birth workers with past lives, both with past with ex-husbands as well.

You are a financial advisor. I could laugh now. I was a drug rep. So, no, but at some point in your life, you have that, um, that incredible cathartic, just, uh, my whole life has to change for me to, uh, you know, follow my purpose. And mine happened very dramatically and, and, and, and that was actually between my second and third.

And I mean, everything changed, you know, that the unpreparedness for. That birth was really me. I just submitting to normal societal standards. I was just kind of a pawn to normalicy and, um, and it wasn't until I really got empowered myself in not just my births and my body, but just. Empowering myself to know that I could do whatever I wanted to do.

And, and that I just had to have faith that I'd succeed. And, and so enter the second chapter of my life and my new incredible husband and, um, and, and just, you know, following my path that, that, that makes me want to get out of bed in the morning. Right. And celebrate what I'm doing. So I am grateful for the experiences, you know, I say I'm embarrassed, but I do have to admit.

I wouldn't be where I am today, if I didn't learn from where I was yesterday. So yeah, it's all good stuff. And I know we're on a birth story podcast right now, but there's so much lesson right there. And just listening to that voice inside of you. And paying attention to those whispers. And when you're 20 or 25, it's not the right time, or you're not powerful enough and your own inner strength, but if you keep listening, you know, you'll get there.

And that includes, you know, all of these, these life lessons applied to our birds. Also before we like move into chapter two, though. You're the very first person I've interviewed that mentioned having a baby with jaundice. And going home with Billy Rubin lights. And I know that they're going to be a lot of people that are like, what, what is that?

And what does that mean? And so I just thought maybe if you could just take a couple minutes to talk about what that meant and what that experience was like for you, just really high level, not medical, but just kind of like, what's it like to have a baby? Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, I live in Colorado.

And it is actually very common. Um, I don't know the status, but I do think it's over half the babies in Colorado and in higher altitudes that do have an issue with their Billy Reuben level. And, um, and then if you add on to, to that, the fact that a baby might be a little bit early, my two babies were both.

Uh, my two first babies were both born at 37 weeks. So. That contributes to it as well. When the baby's born, they take Billy Rubin tests. It's that little prick on their toe. And, um, that is how much they process toxins through, um, their liver. And if they are not processing the toxins properly, then it can cause what's called jaundice, which is a yellowing of the skin, a yellowing of the eyes.

And, um, and it, you know, it, it has the potential to be fatal if it's not. Properly managed. Now the cure for that is sunlight. Yeah. It's a, it's a really interesting cure. It's easy. Um, but sometimes challenging if you literally, the prescription is, is to set them in front of a window naked while the sun is directly on them.

And, and that helps them process those toxins and it helps bring the Billy ribbon down until they are more capable of doing it themselves. Now of course, um, you know, the, the medical community has come up with these, these, uh, synthetic lights. Uh, you have a Billy Rubin table or a Billy Rubin blanket where it's actually one of these light systems that is so bright and they put these teeny tiny little goggles on your baby that are like little sunglasses and they make the baby stay under those lights.

24 hours a day. It will go. It's really challenging. It does, it looks like a tiny tent, tanning bed. And, um, you just, you can't hold your baby. And of course this is a newborn issue. And so you have them in these lights and you can pick them up with the light blanket, which is literally a blanket that is just shining light on their body and hold them for short periods of time to nurse.

But you can't have that skin on skin contact it's for a new mother and a new baby. It's awful. I mean, it's just traumatic for everybody involved and that was very hard for me to go through with him. Um, it also, just to note too, that certain blood types, a mother and father's blood type, I'm not exactly sure of the mix match, but certain blood types when they're matched together, have a higher rate of having.

John does as well. I've learned that recently. So, um, so it's, you know, it's one of those things. If you live in Ohio altitude, if your baby comes a little bit early, if the blood types are wrong, but. If you keep on top of it and you keep them in the sunlight, then you should be fine because actually one of my homebrewers actually had a, uh, a jaundice issue as well.

And my wife was just, you know, lay in the sun with your baby's skin on skin is as much as you can. And then problem remedied itself in a couple of days. So it can be traumatic. But it also can be remedied pretty simply. Excellent. So if you had any advice, would you say to just lay in the sunlight naked with your baby?

Absolutely. Okay. Absolutely. The skin on skin. And, uh, and you know, if you do have a hospital birth and you end up with a doctor, who's very concerned about the Billy Reuben levels. Of course there are different levels to it, but I think in the, in the teens, It's something that is easily fixed by sunlight.

And, you know, maybe mention that to your doctor. Say, I promise that I will spend hours laying naked with my baby in the sun and, uh, instead of having that bed. Yeah. Yeah. So the next chapter of your life is really a birth story of your own. Like you now entered into a new marriage with the love of your life.

You. Your birds that we're about to talk about reflect that peace and that confidence and that education. So will you just take us on that journey of pregnancy and then your turn or your pivot from your old life into this new life of birth work? Absolutely. So, um, I'm going to step back a little bit because says my third birth was actually with my first husband.

I feel like that was the pinnacle point that empowered me to make all these other changes in my life. So I was still with my first husband. It was, um, I, before I, I, when I found out I was pregnant, I actually quit my job as a financial advisor and said, I'm going to too. Start working on the things that I, that I'm empowered to do.

Um, I met a lot of resistance with him. He was not happy be about the fact that I was giving up such a, a great job and great money. He put up with it. Uh, I started training in holistic health. I'm a health practitioner, so I started vegan nutrition and herbs, awesome Reiki and you know, a whole bunch of different, different, um, areas that interest me because I knew that I really wanted to help people.

I wanted to be in the healing arts. And again, I met so much resistance with him, but I was gaining my confidence. I was gaining my, my path, my strength, and, and I told him I'm going to have a home birth with this baby. And he thought I was insane. He was not supportive of it. I made him come with me to meet them wife and he sat there on his phone playing a game.

Um, I mean, our marriage was already, you can tell, not, not in a good place, so. Fast forward to the birth. Um, I actually delivered the baby myself, um, and he sat there again, uh, in the next room playing a game on his phone. And when I delivered that baby, this something changed in me. I did this myself and I had told my midwife, I want to, I want to do this myself as much as I can.

I want to prove to myself that I have the power to do this. And it just it's like, it just. Oh woken this, this power in me that I did not know was there. And, um, and then that's when things really started to change. I had this new baby, I had my other two children and my new holistic health practitioner practice that I was running.

I was cooking for people in their homes, um, transitioning them in a sustainable way to a vegan lifestyle, healthy vegan lifestyle. Um, I became a yoga instructor. I was taking classes at night. I was teaching in the morning before my kids got up, there was a six o'clock class. And so I, yup. I'd leave them asleep.

I'd go teach my yoga class and, um, and then be there in time to, you know, get everybody ready and everything. I was just going through all this stuff that was making me so happy. And finally, I just. Said goodbye to my ex husband. I can't do this anymore. You're not supportive of my dreams and the path I'm on.

And, um, and then yes, I met the absolute love of my life. The most incredible man who has supported me in everything that I've done, failure or success as it should be. Right? Yes. And, and then we have had, you know, children's, since he has been so incredible about the whole idea of doing everything naturally and home birth and, and it was very important to him that he actually.

Catch the babies, um, in the birth pool has our last two and he wants to with this, the authority or our next one as well. And he's just incredible. I mean, I can't speak more highly of him and the support that he's given me through everything that I've done since. So, so yeah, big changes, but a lot of them were just spurred by this, just this.

Empowerment that I did get from my home birth experience. I think just hearing you tell your story is going to be life changing for a lot of people. So there's just, it's kind of a lot in there. You're inspiring me as I'm hearing you, you know, tell your story. I had a question for you about how far apart your children, the first three words.

Sure. So my first two were 16 months apart. And, um, that was a lot of you and I talked, I know your, your two are very close 15 or 16 months apart as well. I think that first year is a blur and then my next one was three years after my second. And then I've pretty much kept them about. Two and a half, three years apart since then this last one will be just at almost three years.

And I find that a very manageable, manageable timeframe. I just feel like, you know, when they're three, you have, they have this kind of autonomy where they can, they can be their own little people. But they also understand what it is to have a new little sibling and they know salt. Yeah. I do a lot easier than my first two, the 16 months apart ones.

Yeah. Now with your home, birds are here children, part of this process too. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes, they, um, my, my oldest boys, uh, my oldest is 13 now. And, uh, and then my second oldest will be 12 since they're, they're so close and they are a little bit apprehensive of how much they want to be. I'm active in, in this, in this labor and birth.

I think they're getting to that age where it might be just a little too much for them, you know, I'm fine with that. You know, they can come in, go as they please. But my, my daughter was, um, In my let's see, three year old daughter was in with my last birth of my son and she was incredible. She held my hand, she got in the birth pool with me.

It was, I feel like it really helped calm me down. And her seeing her excitement just made the whole process so much more exciting. It's not exciting in itself, you know, but yeah. Oh my gosh. I get to meet my brother. She was so excited. So yeah, it's neat to have them all involved. Yes, I love it. I had a doula client recently whose two year old she held and I thought, well, we must still be an early labor because she was just holding her baby and the contraction would hit and she would turn her head into the pillow.

And then. Didn't really make any sounds. She was just this quiet breather in labor, her, and then when her husband took her child out of the room for her to continue the LIBOR, she went into transition and delivered the baby, like 30 minutes later. And I thought, gosh, isn't that nice goodness. She was yeah.

Active LIBOR dilating from six to 10 centimeters and transitioning and all the while just remained. You know, peaceful and calm like that, baby, just on her unit two year old baby, but two year old baby that she held just gave her all the peace and comfort that she needed. You know, that love that loving energy that they just, that unconditional, loving energy that these little guys have for you.

You feel it it's tangible, you know, and, and not to mention that, but I think a lot of times with women when they're pregnant, they know that there's a baby in there, but. When you're looking at a baby that you've already had, and you're like, wow, this is what I'm doing. You know, this is what I'm going to get a little person like this.

It just makes it so much more real. And, uh, I it's, it's hard to explain, but you know, it's, it's almost like sometimes I've noticed in, in being a doula that, that women, it's not really real to them that they're happy having a baby until they're holding their baby. And, um, N L wow. I made this, like, I, I did this, this is a person, you know, and when you're holding your baby and you're, and you're giving birth, it's almost like this extra motivation that says I'm getting another little person that's mine and, and just so full of love.

And it's. It brings this whole different dynamic to the process. Yes. Well, I have, I have more questions I'm just, yes, please. So you mentioned one husband on the first three birds was playing video games. And so for that home birth, Did you have a doula? I know you had a midwife and it was an assisted birth with a midwife, but did you have a doula or anyone else besides, like I was wondering, who else joined you in your birth, home birth besides your partner and your midwife?

Yes. So my mother has been with me through all of my bursts and she has been just such an incredible support. I'm very, very fortunate to have her so close emotionally and physically, you know, she just, she lives in the same town. So it has been just a pleasure to have her with me, um, throughout my birth.

And she has been wonderful. I did not have a doula. The only people at my burgers, uh, were, you know, through all my bursts with my mother and, um, and my husband, my aunt did join me. And one of my second hospital birth, it was, um, my aunt is kind of like a sister to me. And so she was there for that one. And that was really neat.

But in terms of having support, I have not had a doula. Now, my husband now. Is, uh, you know, being a doula myself, I have trained him. Well, we're also hypnotherapists. Both of us are, I have kind of this awesome leg up with my husband being a hypnotherapist. He knows how my brain works and he knows the practice of hypnotherapy with a concentration in pain management, which is what I concentrated on to, uh, in my, in my schooling.

And so he's just really able to put me in a very good place if I lose it a little bit. Cause you know, during transition, there's that point that I think all women hit where they say, wow, I don't know if I can, I can do this. You know, I don't know if I have the strength in me to actually. Manage this, and he's been there to just, um, put me in a very good place.

So, so I think that's been a great benefit. Yes. And it's so important to remember how short that period of time is. Yes. And it's right before the baby comes too. It's all just right there. And I reminded myself of this last time because I looked at him and I said, Wow. I, I don't know. I'm, I'm kind of opted out of this now.

And he says, well, you can't. And I said, I know, but, Oh my gosh. And I said, wait, this means, and he said, yeah, he's coming. He's coming in. Yeah, it was within minutes. He was out. So it's good to remind yourself that when you hit that. That spot. Oh, you're almost there. I mean really just minutes away. I mean, I just watch it.

Absolutely. I watch my mom's over and over again. I watched their LIBOR build and the contractions build and it gets tough, but when they have those few, just those few contractions, right. At the end that really push that baby down and the baby's kicking off of you and. They're like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

And then the next day it's conjunction, they're pushing and it's just such a beautiful, you know, it's like you get to the point you surrender and then it's over. And so. Well, you know, that's what I always talk about with my, when I, and I, I'm not a practicing doula anymore. It's just way too challenging with, um, as many kids as I have.

And, uh, and, and my, my businesses right now to, to actually, and that's actually why I started one of my businesses is so that I could help women through. Birth and their pregnancy and postpartum in my own way without actually having to be right next to them. But, but that's what I would tell my doula clients.

And they would they'd look at me, I'd warn them about that moment. They'd look at me at that moment and they they'd have tears in their eyes and they'd say, Oh Jennifer, I just can't. And I'd give them this. Big smile. And I'd say, this is that time. This is that time I told you about you're almost there and they'd look at me with excitement.

Like, Oh, yes, I remember. So, yeah, it's, it's, it's kind of universal and so beautiful and it just gives me goosebumps to think about it. Yes. I have another question that came to mind with your children. So close in age, and the fact that you mentioned you're committed to nursing, have you had a break in nursing in the last 13 years?

Very, very, very short. Yeah, very short. And it's interesting you say that because I am one of those people who, and I am so grateful for this. I have no problem getting pregnant at all. I think my husband chest has to glance over at me and I get pregnant. So that's. That's just really cool, but I cannot stay pregnant when I'm nursing.

And I have had 12 miscarriages in my lifetime and they have all been while I was nursing and I was not preventing because, you know, we kind of just, we, we want our children to happen when they happen. And. It's just very, very challenging for me to keep a baby when I'm nursing. Obviously it has to do with my progesterone levels, if you know, kind of how that works.

It's, um, you know, your progesterone is lowered by nursing and, um, yeah. And so, you know, it's, everybody's, it's different and their bodies handle things differently. I know so many women who have been able to get pregnant while they're nursing and have a very, you know, successful pregnancy to answer your question more directly.

I've had small breaks and then I've gotten pregnant right away. So, so that's, that's kind of how that works. Well, Jennifer, I. I do not know how to respond to. So you have been pregnant 18 times. They have, I have, and you know, my miscarriages have been early. Um, and I have been through a lot of them. I was on progesterone, but you know, to be honest, they, I know the levels.

Weren't exactly where they needed to be. I am, um, Also, I have my age working against me. Yeah. I'm saying this out loud for the first time, but I just turned 40 this year. And so, um, as you get older, your progesterone levels go down as well. So it is one of those things where, um, I was on progesterone and I just wasn't getting enough and I doubled it myself.

Um, and, and actually I'm still nursing. I'm happy to say I'm still nursing. My youngest son, my two year old right now. And here I am, uh, just entering my second trimester. So I'm so grateful for that. And so it, it is a, it's a super power that I've always wanted to experience nursing and being pregnant at the same time.

So I'm very, very grateful for that experience. Now we're going to take a short break to just share a few things with you and we'll be right back. Did you know that there was a party going on an Instagram every day at birth story podcast, if you're listening and you're like, man, I'm just curious, like what Heidi or kids look like or what this guest is wearing today, then you should be following us on Instagram and Facebook because we put out really good content.

And I'll be honest. I want to be in a relationship with you. So if you were listening to this podcast, I want to hear from you tag me in your birth story, like tag me in your fertility and your pregnancy journey. Let's be friends, at least on social media. So again, the handle is birth story podcast, wherever you're at on social media and let's connect.

So Jennifer, you shared so much about your. Journey's here. And I want your like divine wisdom on how did you know that you were in labor each time and like, what signals did your body give you? You mentioned the first happened early at 37 weeks. It was a really unique one as well. Um, and, and to be honest, I haven't seen it in a lot, even in my.

My work as doula. I was, I was not expecting it. You know, again, first birth you think, Oh, I'll make it to about 40 weeks now, 37 weeks. I'm watching TV. And I actually heard a pop and I thought. What's that my water, what, what just happened? I went to the restroom and I was bleeding profusely and I of course, went into panic mode and, um, and went into the hospital.

My, uh, water had not broken. What had happened was I was dilating so fast that the blood vessels in my cervix were breaking. And, and it wasn't painful. I know, I know it sounds painful, but it wasn't painful at all. But it was just like my body said, I'm ready now. And although that would have been really nice if I had not labored for yeah.

36 hours, but it was a slow labor after that, but yeah, it just popped me right into full contractions and, um, and there wasn't any lead up. I wasn't even having Braxton Hicks or anything. So I really can't explain that one too much. So it's kind of an anomaly, but. With my second, it was a lot more normal. I woke up.

37 weeks. Again, I kinda, you know, I had an inkling that I might be early because of my first and second actions started and they started slowly and, you know, not very painful and they started getting more and more. And at this point, this is the one where I told you I barricaded the doors to the hospital, so I didn't want to get there too early.

So I, you know, did stuff around the house, tried to get my first son ready, all that kind of stuff. And, um, until I could not. Handle it anymore. I couldn't walk, I couldn't talk through with them. That's when I actually went to the hospital and, and had him within just, yeah. Oh my gosh. I think it was like an hour of arriving to the hospital, but I was very aware of it after you had contractions.

Once, I think, you know, you, you get, you know, that feeling, you know where you're going. Exactly. Now those first two, my water didn't break on its own. Um, they were both broken right before I went into right before I delivered. And that was, that was interesting because you know, you normally hear stories and a lot of my, you know, this happens.

Yeah. A lot of my mom has had their water break before and some of them have a break right before they start pushing. But, um, with my. Uh, fourth, that one was one where I was, it was actually Halloween nights. I was trick or treating with my kids and came home. And it was my due date. I was, I was doing Halloween night and, uh, I had them dump out all their candy on the floor so I could go through it and make sure nothing was open and my water broke.

And then within just four hours, my daughter was born. So that one was a very normal, just very standard. And how. Most birth stories tend to go with, with the water breaking and a fast bird. And with my last son. Yeah. You know, this just goes to show you that every birth is different with my last son. Um, I started having contractions.

I knew that I was in labor called my midwife. She came over to check me when I was having, I couldn't sleep through them. They kept waking me up and. I was only dilated to three centimeters and she said, I'm going to go home and I'll, I'll come back. And, and she came back three or four hours later, three centimeters, and yet I still could not walk and talk, sleep or anything through these contractions long story short after 20, this is my fifth birth after 27 hours of labor.

My midwife came and she said you were not dilating. And I felt like I was almost in transition and the baby was not putting pressure on my cervix. Somehow. And I, you know, I always think that a lot of this has to do with my mental prepared in this, you know, and I keep thinking back, back on maybe where I was mentally, I was very excited.

I don't know what was really holding up the process for me, but I requested that. After going upstairs. I don't know how many times going on a walk, as best as I could with these contractions, as horrible as they were, or as strong as they were, they really weren't, you know, a horrible, but they were, they were definitely very, very strong, nearing transition type contractions.

I finally said, I really do think that I need to know that my, my water needs to, to break and, uh, believe it or not, we broke. And I went from three centimeters to 10 and 20 minutes and the baby was born. Oh, wow. I'm so glad that you had that intuitiveness to know that I do have a handfuls of stories of moms I've been with not on your first birth, right?

Like breaking a bag of water at three centimeters on your person. No, no, no, no. Yes. But on your. Sometimes the only thing preventing your baby from being in your arms is that bulging, you know, back of water because the baby needs the room to come down to put the pressure on the cervix. So the fact that you, from your trainings, from your intuition, that you knew that that would be a good medical intervention that the midwife could do was it's just amazing.

And I'm so glad she did it for me because I don't think it's, you know, it generally not standard that they want to. Intervene like that. Um, but, but it was at that point, you know, having my last two bursts being just a few hours long, very easy by the book. And then this one just taking forever and not dilating with this, the strength of the contractions that I had known to be very productive.

Not being productive. Yeah. So, you know, it just goes to show you every birth is different, even for the same mama. Uh, you know, it makes it exciting at the same time. So I'm like, wow, what's this next one going to be, you know, there's six babies. It should just fall out. Right. I'm hoping you could write the book on it, you know?

Six completely different stories and also the role of the mindset and the role of the rate's support team and the role of listening and knowing, you know, what your body means. I would venture to say on the, um, I think it was your fourth child, the Halloween baby. I say that. Sometimes you can sort of tell that maybe the baby would have been born in call.

And I I've had a chance where I tell moms, well, you can absolutely keep laboring. If the water is still intact, it could be many, many more hours. You know, I know you're 10 centimeters dilated and you have the ejection reflex hasn't been triggered. Um, if we break the water, the baby's likely going to be born.

Most moms will say, okay, let's just get this over or what I've seen the other way too. I mean, I attended a birth, um, as a midwife birth assistant and. I, my, my midwife called me. She said, you know, come over. She just started laboring. This was the lady's eighth, by the way. So this might have something to do with it, but I come over there trying to fill the birth pool and she's on the bed, on her back.

And. My midwife said, come over here. Now, come over here now. And I get there to help deliver the baby. And that baby shot out in call. And I mean, I was there in 20 minutes, so she could not have been in labor for more than a day. The baby was. Fully encapsulated. And it was the quickest, just the easiest labor I've ever seen.

And you have like such a beautiful gift to be able to see a baby born in. Oh my gosh. Also. Yeah, no. Yeah. So Jennifer, one of the things that I think is so important to just kind of look at this whole story of your birds that you've shared with us is that it started the very first one young, you know, where the relationship that you are in and the stressors of our life, living proof that those come to the birth.

With you. So you, anyone who's listening that is a feeling, anxiety, stress, a whisper inside that they're not listening to and their birth has coming up. You know, my advice would be, try to get some counseling. And then try to work on some hip, no birding and maybe a massage or two. Like, there are some tools that we can do to like shift our mindset prior if you know that that's the birth you're, you're staring down your hospital birth in your okay.

Marriage with the job that you maybe don't like, and a lot of stress and anxiety. Yeah. Like we hear you, we honor that Jennifer and I have both been there. Right. And here are some tools. What other tools would you recommend? First time, mom, it's a very nice normal that 36 hour LIBOR is actually quite normal compared to all of the subsequent burrs that we discussed.

That kind of thing. Hold a little bit, minus your fifth one, but then unfold a little bit, um, quicker, um, mindset is a big thing, but what else could you share with that, mom, if you could go back to your self. That was birthing your first child. Like, what would you tell her at week 36? One of the things that I am a huge proponent of is, and some people call it meditating.

Some people just call it, being quiet with yourself, giving yourself that space. But I don't think in today's day and age, we actually take the time to quiet the noise. There's so much noise that we have from, um, Social media and normal media. There's so much noise out there. And I think we give so much weight to other people's dramas and issues, and that really does.

That's, that's an energy that eats into our own. And so one of the things that I love to tell my clients and my friends is that it's so important, especially when you're later in pregnancy is to just really. Pull in and be quiet, quiet, all of the stuff that's going on around you so that you can really concentrate on your strength, your power, your intention, the fact that your life is going to change in the most amazing way and finding this peace and kind of synergy with your baby and this.

New dynamic that you're facing. It's just such an incredible time to really tap into yourself. Because one of the things that I tell it a lot on my YouTube channel is, is intuitive. Mothering, listening to your guts, listening to your heart. It is of utmost importance and, and that starts when you're pregnant.

Because you are the one that knows you the best, and you're the one that knows your baby the best, even though you have yet to meet them. And, and so really pulling in and being quiet, learning to embrace that quiet and learning to live, send to your innate mother. The person in you that knows how to labor, how to birth the person in you that innately knows how to love and care for your baby.

And so that right there, I think is one of the most incredible tools that I was not armed with with my first child, when I went into labor and went into mothering, but have sense. It's gained and it is put me in a place are, as I am, you know, excited to, to meet my six baby that I, I'm not nervous. I'm not uncomfortable.

I obviously have been through this many times, but I know that I can trust my. Instincts my intuition. And, and as long as I love my baby, this is something, again I talk to about, on my YouTube channel. But you know, a lot of women come to me asking about, about co-sleeping and all these things that aren't recognized as being a norm in our society and other societies.

Yes, but not here. You know, I say, listen to your gut. If you don't want to your baby in a crib, then nobody says you have to, if you want to snuggle with your baby all night, then by all means do it. This is you. This is you. So that, that is kind of a long winded speech to answer your question, but I think that is the best way to arm yourself for your birth, your labor, for, and, and becoming a mother for the first time or the fifth.

Time. Thank you so much for sharing all of that. And if there's anyone you've mentioned your YouTube channel and I want to pivot, but if there's anyone that's listening and is like, I don't really, like, I understand that you're saying be quiet and all this, and this is really something hard for me. One of the recommendations I have that I love is no birthing with Melissa.

Bill stead SPI L S T E D. And I'll link to that into the sh in the show notes. And so you are Jennifer, also a hypnotherapist, so someone's like, okay, how do I would love to be quiet, but I've never done that before. And so how do I do it? And that's not abnormal. Yeah. That's not abnormal right now. And I know a lot of people that I speak with, cause I'm also a meditation teacher.

That say I, you know, and the word meditation, I try to not use that very often because I feel like that scares a lot of people away. Just the thought of having to sit somewhere. They have a preconceived notion of, of sitting in an empty room by yourself for two hours and in complete silence. And that's terrifying for a lot of people.

So, you know, absolutely meditation doesn't have to be that way, but you can find meditation in. Anything, you know, um, we play the piano. There's a meditative aspect, too, right. Being completely mentally engrossed in something that you're passionate. It is quiet that I'm talking about is, is quieting awesome.

All the extra noise. That's not doing you any service. And that's how I think about it. Is watching the news right now, is that empowering you as an individual to be the best person you can. It can be. Is it empowering you in your strength to birth this baby into, you know, just a lot of noise out there that I don't think we really realize until we really stopped to think about it.

And so w. The, the quieting doesn't necessarily have to be sitting in Lotus for two hours room. It literally can be, um, painting, playing the piano, going on a walk with your child, just being very present with them, tapping into again, that internal voice. So it's not as complicated or intimidating as it sounds.

It's just being with yourself, being with what's important to you with who's important to you, right? And conjuring that strength that's within all of us that I think gets so muffled because of all the noise around us. So beautifully said, and Jennifer, for the end of this podcast in the next couple of minutes, I we've gone on this long journey with you.

Now. That's been so beautiful of you know, who you were, who you are today, or how you're preparing for baby number six. The way work connected. It's just this random way. I found you through Etsy doing gang Kung belly, binding the city, the grid practice that I love to give all of my private doula clients and Jennifer is my designer that sends the material to me.

Okay. And that is just one piece, as you've heard throughout this podcast of all, all of the mini, just beautiful, shiny facets, bit of Jennifer and you have in your entrepreneurship and your giving into this birth world, share with us all of the things that you're doing right now. And then also how we can connect with you after this podcast ends.

Absolutely. Yeah, I, so I desperately missed being of service to mamas, uh, in the capacity of a doula. It was something that was a very hard choice for me to make, but, um, you know, my family needs me here and, and so, um, I tried to find ways of. Helping mothers, uh, in my own way with my experience and, and the things that I can make and provide for them, but still be home with my family.

And that's how my company, art of natural wellness was born. Um, I have enjoyed, uh, words can't even explain. Blaine the benefits of being confined, being for myself. Uh, I, with my first couple of bursts used in those Velcro binding, they're so uncomfortable. Oh my God. And, but I passed powered through them because I wanted to get, um, you know, all my organs back and, and I want it to get, you know, my, my prepregnancy body back.

And so I did it and it was very uncomfortable. And when I. Found this ancient practice, this ritual of being combining, I was just blown away and I used it for my subsequent birds and I decided that I was going to start making them and bring in, you know, I've yeah, I paint and I, I illustrate, I have a degree in the arts and so I wanted to bring.

That aspect of my life, that passion of my life into the healing arts. And so I started designing these band combines and wanted to make them cost effective for mothers. And that was really important to me because as a doula, I. Always worked with my mamas. You know, I always felt like they, if they needed the support and they seek the support that they should get it regardless of, of what they could pay.

And so that followed through with my, my company. So it has been a wonderful journey because through that, I have also started teaching on YouTube. Um, a lot of the stuff that we've talked. It's about, you know, mothering and breastfeeding and co-sleeping and, um, birth and all that kind of stuff. I even have one of my birth videos up there and it's just been such a blessing for me to be able to share my experience and what I've learned through.

Having my children and being a mother so many times with my audience and being able to share these binds and organic body products with them that I wished I had had through my first few pregnancies. That is how my company started. And. Through that as well. I I've always, like I said, I'm an illustrator and a painter and I've always wanted to write my own children's books and illustrate them.

And I'm just so excited that my book, dear one be kind is what it's called. It's a book that I completely, I wrote myself and, um, illustrated myself self and it is about kindness and compassion and things that I think we as moms are. We fear is being lost in today's society with our children. I think that I see, we know with my 13 year old and how and how a lot of people interact that we've kind of lost a lot of that.

Um, Empathetic and compassionate perspective with other people in their actions that, that I think we need to be reminded of. And so I wrote this book for children, but it, I think it's, it's great for adults too, so we're okay. We have the dear one be kind book and then the bank Kung belly binds and the organic body products and YouTube.

Okay. I'll link to everything in the show notes. So if anyone's driving and they can't rate it down, but how do we find the art of natural wellness? Sure. Art of national wellness, you can find me through Etsy. And, um, and yeah, so the link will, we'll take you there. It is. Um, uh, you know, that. That is a great place to reach me.

There's conversations through Etsy and, and you will reach me directly through them there. My YouTube channel is called Willow Astarria Steria and I have that in common. This is a lot that's that takes part of all my bank combined teachings my, my mothering, um, birth. Uh, it includes my art and all that kind of stuff.

That's just kind of my. Place where I just share everything that I do. And, um, so you can find me on YouTube and get in touch with me there through the, uh, my channel Willow with. And then the last question that I ask everyone is with all of your experiences in birth work and as a mother, what is your favorite baby product?

Besides your new book, dear one behind, yeah, hands down my baby. Carrier's hands down. No, no contest. I feel like as a new mother and I even have a video on this, on YouTube where that like the must haves and there's just a few, I really feel like you can have a baby and not have a lot of stuff we just get.

So, you know, I'm into all the different paraphernalia that, that they try to bark at us, but, um, I could not live without my baby carriers. And, and I say plural, because, you know, I love when they're newborns, I just feel like it just holds them in and yeah, slings holds them in, in such a way that newborns just love.

It's it's very womb like, but, um, I have an ergo and it's Tula. And I don't think I could function as a mother of multiple children without it. I wear my babies all the time. I still wear my two year old all the time, even present, but I think baby wearing, just keeping them close. Yeah. Um, they just want to be with you and, um, and it allows you to, to continue and do everything that you want to do.

So, absolutely. My baby carriers are, are, um, must, must have. And in the show notes, everyone, I am going to link to the YouTube channel Willow wisteria and the specific video on the baby must haves by Jennifer. So. Thank you so much for being here today and just pouring into the hearts and souls of our listeners to empower them in their labor and deliveries that are upcoming.

I appreciate you so much. Oh, it's been such a pleasure, Heidi in an honor. Thank you so much for having me. It's been great. Getting to know you better.

Thank you for listening to birth story, Michael, if you will walk away from each episode with a clear picture of how labor and delivery might go and that you will feel empowered by the end of your pregnancy to speak up plan and prepare for the birth you want, no matter what that looks like.