29 Award-Winning Documentarian Emily Graham and Midwife Carey on Unaided Birthing Birth Story

Emily Graham is not only an experienced South Carolinian midwife, she is also the producer of the award-winning documentary These Are My Hours. For this episode, Heidi recommends grabbing a large box of tissues because she and midwife partners Carey and Emily dive deep into what it was like for Emily to find her own power and to allow birth to unfold undisturbed and unaided—all under the microscope of a large film crew! Interested in learning more about Emily and Carey’s birth work? Visit www.rootedbirth.org.

Looking for a Virtual Doula to create a custom birthing experience and guide you through your journey to parenthood in the United States? Contact Heidi at www.mydoulaheidi.com

For additional free birth education resources and to purchase Heidi’s book, Birth Story: Pregnancy Guidebook + Journal, visit www.birthstory.com.

Want to share your thoughts on the episode? Leave a review and send a message directly to Heidi on Instagram.

TRANSCRIPTION

Does a contraction feel like? How do I know if I'm in labor and what did the day of labor look like? Wait, is this normal? Hey, I'm Heidi. My best friends. Call me hides. I'm a certified birth doula host of this podcast and author of birth story and interactive pregnancy guidebook. I have supported hundreds of women through their labor and deliveries, and I believe every one of them and you deserves a microphone and a stage.

So here we are within each week to get answers to these tough questions, birth story, where we talk about pregnancy labor deliveries, where we tell our stories and share our feelings, and of course chat about our favorite baby products and motherhood. And because I'm passionate about birth outcomes, you will hear from some of the top experts in labor and delivery, whether you are pregnant.

Trying desperately to get pregnant or you just love a good birth story. Okay. I hope you will stick around and be part of this birth story family. Hi. Hey, I have Emily and carry with me that are here to talk about their very exciting documentary. These are my hours. So welcome you guys. Thank you. Thank you for having us.

I am so excited to be with you and I, Emily. I'm not even really sure how we got connected, but I remember meeting you in person at a childbirth education series with dr. . Sarah Buckley. She's awesome. Fabulous. Fabulous. She's also going to be on the podcast and a couple of weeks talking about the physiology of birth.

Um, but we did get a chance to meet at that continuing education program. And I've since then watched your video, your documentary twice. Bawled my eyes out. So I cannot wait to share the empowerment of this documentary with all of our listeners and hope that everyone will subscribe to it. So we have so much to unpack.

Let's start with, I was hoping that you might share with the listeners the very beginning of your documentary, because it is. I mean, you had me from the moment it started and you're going to have this whole audience. So why don't you walk us through like, kind of what that platform is and that very beginning of your documentary.

Okay. So the very first line in the film is as follows. Here's the story I was told a woman in labor is a vessel for a baby, and she needs a room full of help to be that vessel. Here's the story I'm telling and that's shown over black and white. The intent of starting the film that way is to really illustrate the fact that when I was pregnant with my first baby, the message that I got kind of from culture was that my rights as a person were changed, that I was existing only as a literal vessel to bring forth this baby.

And then I didn't have within myself the means and the power to bring forth the child on my own, that I literally needed a room full of help to get there. And I wanted to tell a completely different story because my journey has proved to me that it was wrong, what I was told. And let's take a minute and just tell everyone behind your voice and this documentary, who you are.

It's a woman behind the voice. I'm Emily Graham. I am a birth worker, a mother, an educator, uh, Fiery little lady who just had my life changed through the experience of giving birth to my first child and kind of was put on a path of a feminist birth activism and midwifery studies. And that's what I've dedicated the last 10 years of my life doing.

And so it was just beyond excited to be able to do. Like a legit documentary about autonomous birth. So, yeah. And it's legit. It's good. So Carrie, tell us about you. I became a midwife and between 2008 and 2010, and I've, you know, worked all around avenues of birth and lactation, you know, doula work or midwifery or classes or lactation stuff.

And. You know, the documentary was a chance to incorporate the other aspects of my life. Not related to healthcare, which are primarily artistic. And to use that as an educational medium, we've taken the film and yeah, last year around to academic settings and community settings, all around the country, spoken to young people, not yet having babies spoken to people with challenging geographic or demographic situations and yeah.

Formed our own trauma informed childbirth education model as a result, and gotten to. Spread the conversation about not just home birth, it's much larger than that. It's about physiology in general. What is possible autonomy about the family and community about what the media shows us about physiologic events and how that translates into our beliefs about our bodies and stories.

And. It's just really been an incredible marriage of all of my life's passions to work with the film. Yeah. So, and I'm just going to be transparent because I'm sitting over here listening and learning and interviewing and hoping to share with my audience. But I very much am a product of all of the messages of the media down to even the way that I practice.

And my doula business. And so watching the documentary was very eye opening. And I hope to just continue to learn more from you guys today about empowering women to be able to birth undisturbed. You know, without, like you said, without being in a room full of people, trying to help you do what your body was was born to do.

So I think you guys so much yeah. Um, for being here, not Carrie, you mentioned something that just makes me have a, a deeper question for you on your childbirth education series. And I was wondering how you are defining trauma. Trauma is the experience basically of severe psychological distress. Typically our goal role is to speak to all systems and individuals to sensitize them to an individual experience.

Okay. Basically that, yeah, you never know what a person may be bringing. There's just no guarantee of any kind. Yeah. And so we all have to behave with respect and dignity and approach sensitively, a person's body, you know, there's a. Yeah, that's a, that's a really good answer and it's different than I was even thinking.

So it broadens the scope of what was on my mind and what was my religious trauma. There's it's not just sexual trauma, it's authority, trauma. It's you know, people may have had parents or other caregivers or authoritarians or teachers or whoever. And then you're between their legs talking hatefully to them.

Like it just, everybody needs to take a step back. Yeah. In all medical and all settings actually, and become more sensitive ties to how we speak and behave. But especially in. Life altering experience when you're near birth or death or, you know, extreme emotion, there just needs to be a pause. Yeah. Another thing that comes to mind is like the structural racism that we have in our medical care today, too.

So I'm really excited to hear that you guys are. Building a childbirth education series. That's going to address all of that work. It's ringing a bell. There was a, an episode on the podcast earlier with CEO of Kandoo kiddo, a really cool woman that does occupational therapy. And the week before she gave birth, her father passed away abruptly.

And we did a lot of unpack backing on how. That birth experience for her ended up being a little bit dark and a little bit traumatic because she wasn't able to clear her grief, you know, before she went into, you know, spontaneous labor. So is extremely complex, extremely, and it's defined so differently by every individual and it can be triggered by so many different things.

So just informing everyone of the nuances around it, both. The consumer and providers, there's a lot of emphasis put towards providers to become trauma informed, but consumers being aware that there could be these situations that, you know, like you're saying from the beginning 92% of people and even people in the other 8%, they may be bringing in things or the practitioner, no matter where they are, what setting they're in can have their own baggage too.

To unpack also. Yeah, I it's been doing birth work for 15 years and I, I don't think I've attended a birth yet where we didn't have to at least emotionally pack some things before they were able to be prepared for their birth. And often I end up. Sending my clients out to do a lot of like fair puppy, just in preparation.

So I'm excited to see where you guys take this and I'm going to follow your journey. And before we dig in a little bit more to the documentary, where does everyone listening, find you and find the film. These are my ours. So the film you can find on social media and our handle is these are my hours everywhere.

Very simple. These are my hours.com. So our website, you can purchase a screening license there, a DVD, a digital copy. You can rent the film. It's all linked from our website and our personal website is Emily and carrie.com. E M I L Y a N D C a R E Y. Okay. I will chime in and say, well done on your website because it's so easy to purchase.

I mean, it took like maybe less than two minutes to like click the link purchase. And then all I was watching it on my phone. So it was a really, yeah, because Emily's skill of phasing, all computers. So anyone listening that takes two minutes, it's really easy. And that. The film is about 52 minutes long.

And so it's well worth an hour of your day, and you're going to watch it, want to watch it over and over and over again. So let's kind of dig into your birth story. This home is a Testament and a doctor  of you giving birth to your fourth. Child. Yes. And so before we get to the actual film, tell me about just really briefly your first three birds.

Yeah. So I could probably tell a very similar story for all of my births. I'm a bit unusual in that. I have never had a trauma in my bursts. I chose a home birth midwife for my first pregnancy. Um, after learning about home birth before I was ever planning to get pregnant and had made the decision that I was going to have a home birth back then.

So it was simple for me. And my birth was like the dream first birth. I was in labor for six hours. The midwife was at my house for two hours. It was like four o'clock on a Wednesday afternoon. It was like the highlight of my life. And I climbed up on every rooftop I could find and proselytize to people about how amazing home birth is.

Mmm. Okay. By second birth was so fast that I learned that I should probably not be on a soap box because maybe everyone wouldn't want to experience something that was that intense. So I learned my lesson just to, you know, keep my wisdom to myself and give it to people when they asked, instead of forcing it on them.

So my second was born at home. His labor was 90 minutes long, and then my third was born with Carrie at home that was maybe two hours totally straight forward. And so, you know, I kind of had trust in my body and kind of. Joyful births, which was a gift for my mother who had simple pregnancies and bursts, and always passed along the message that pregnancy and births were beautiful, amazing, joyful, full experiences.

So I didn't, I didn't bring fear with me. From the beginning. Yeah. Yeah. Which I feel really fortunate about now working in this field, knowing how many people do bring fear with them. Yeah. Let's just, let's go with that for a little bit, too, because as a doula, I'm more on the emotional and physical support rather than like on the medical side.

And as an emotional and physical support person, my clients typically hire me very early. Maybe. You know when they're eight or nine weeks along. And so I'm able to kind of journey with them throughout their entire pregnancy. And all of my clients are usually birthing in the hospital, but the majority of the work that I do throughout the day, The pregnancy is having to undo the messages that they're getting from their healthcare provider, telling them that their baby is in danger, that they are doing something wrong.

If they don't get, you know, induced at 39 weeks, if they have any, you know, Any little thing it's like their whole pregnancy, every visit is just kind of a fear based visit rather than an empowering visit. And so I wanted you to share with me since we're talking about the documentary on that fourth baby, what it's like to be preparing for a home birth throughout your pregnancy and how those visits.

What that looks like as your belly is growing and your baby is growing. So not just the being part, but to get to that burning part in that good place. Okay. I imagine that there are many steps with your midwife that helped to empower you along the way so that when the day of labor arrives, it sounds like you were prepared, you're confident and that you weren't afraid.

Of the process that you knew you were having a healthy baby? Well, with my first and third pregnancies, I had a new midwife to me. And so I had a lot of official prenatal care with those pregnancies. And both times, although one of them was a CNM doing home birth, and one was a CPM doing home birth. And so outwardly you would think their practices would be very different, but really.

Most of the time was spent just getting to know each other. I think both of the midwives that I saw, we had two hour appointments either in their small office, always my standard, definitely, or at my house, mostly. Um, and we just talked about stuff about everything, you know, about my relationship and about my.

Food my diet about how I was feeling about my dreams, about my sleep, about my, like my dreams for the birth, about how my husband was doing. And then also just the state of the world, like whatever comes up like right pregnant people are always very open and vulnerable to what's going on in the world around them.

And so. Which is where the definition of trauma gets tricky, right? Like when something that's going on in the news right now is happening, I think of every woman getting ready to have her baby and what our nervous system is going through, even though it's not directly occurring to her body, her person they're very open, very sensitive.

Yeah. So they ended up really being more like a counselor who then at the end of that time together, instead of me just leaving, they kind of checked my vital signs and. Rest assured that all as well. And it almost always is. I mean, most people who are informed in planning, home births are healthy people, you know, and they don't have very many preexisting health concerns.

And so largely everything's normal. And it always was the case for me. And sometimes I would learn things about my yourself. Like I have. An overactive insulin response. And so I tend to get hypoglycemic. And so I learned that through the, my prenatal care and take better care of myself through my diet now.

And then, so with my second and enforced pregnancies, I was seeing the same midwife I had seen for the birth before that. And largely I had free. What's called a free pregnancy, meaning I gave myself prenatal care largely. I, you know, checked my own blood pressure and talk to my baby and ate a lot of good food and saw them to talk when then we did, you know, we didn't have any official dates.

We would, I was working with both of them during those times. So we were seeing each other for work and we would spend some time talking about me and how I was doing, um, which just felt like. What I wanted. Yeah. You know, the support that I wanted. Yeah. It sounds like making new friends. Yeah. So what I'm hearing very intimate thing to have someone at your birth and that intimacy and trust takes some time and energy to develop, and then it actually goes better.

Yeah, and this is a fear and a concern for many women that are delivering in a hospital because the standard of care is that you would deliver with a large practice and they even make you rotate providers throughout your pregnancy. So many moms that come to me say, I'm hiring a doula because. I just want con like constant continuity of care.

I want to know that at least you and my partner are going to be there. I have two people I can rely on since they don't know who the nurse will be, or as they change shifts or leave me. I think that's also something that I've noticed that really deeply affects a woman in labor at the hospital. Is that.

She'll build a relationship with her side nurse and then they leave her. Right. And then the process starts all over. Yeah. And so I just love hearing you talk about a two hour or prenatal appointment and or relationship, like, of course, that would help, um, you know, eliminate any fears and trauma and make you feel heard and listened then too.

Right. I remember a lot to hear. Yeah, sexual experiences or beliefs on what this baby brings into the new family, what their fears are about finances or the future, or, you know, they don't have to go into everything, everyone. But if something is an impediment, it may come up. It's been labor, even if just in the mind, it may come up in the body in some way.

And if there's not a comfort of dialogue, You know, to say these things have come up for me then a have an awkward space in labor. Yeah, I know. I know that I could not have had a burst that would have felt satisfying to me in a hospital setting. I think I would have had like a quote fine. Yeah, because they were fast.

Okay. There wouldn't have been a lot of time for people messing with me or doing interventions on me, but I was very specific about what I wanted. And if you watch the film, you will see that. And it's really not common. What I want is to not be touched or talk to almost ever. And like, I can't imagine going into a hospital room with people I have never met and them assuming that's what I wanted or being okay with not speaking or not touching me, never giving me a vaginal exam.

Maybe never listening to the baby's heart tones. Cause it bothered me. I just. I would have spent a lot of time fighting about what I didn't want and maybe my birth would have been long or maybe it would have been challenging in some other way, because I would have been pulled out of. Of the deep, deep brainwave state that I was in.

Yeah. Now I have a question about that. So as you watch the film, these are my hours and you see the birth of your daughter. Ramona, what you speak about is the fact that primarily this film, just pictures, you. Laboring now your midwife is there and your husband is there and your mom is there, but they they're all distant from you closest it's enough that they're right there if you need them, but they have given you all of the power.

To believe in you to give you space, to keep you really unobserved also and understand ironically, right? Yeah. And except where you have a film camera, I, there are 13 people, three cameras in the ceiling and people wearing cameras. Ironically, I felt completely we unobserved. Yes. And you know, but it's so funny for you to say.

Say that because when you watch the film, I had, I would have no, I mean, I guess that makes sense, right? That there's a film crew, but as you watch it it's so the film is, it makes it appear as if you are completely unobserved and undisturbed. So well done so well done. Whatever. Yeah. Whatever you were experiencing, I think was perfectly captured because I was just emotional.

The, you know, the entire time watching the strength, the strength of you saying, I can do this and I wanted to interject your husband there. This film is so powerful. I'm watching your husband sit in a chair as the baby's birthing and. He lets you have sacred time alone with your baby while he is. Pouring tears.

Yeah. You can hear him. Yeah. But he doesn't race to you. He doesn't race to your side. He allows you to almost, it was like you went into like a prayer position over your baby having this a moment of, of, and you just said what you said over and over again, we did this meaning. You and your baby as what it felt like.

And then I'm like, like we did this and there was this long period of time where your midwife and your husband and your mom not only let you birth, but right. You're still in labor because you're placenta, you know, you haven't even entered the third stage of labor yet. And your support team. Allowed you to do what you were born to do.

And so your husband is sitting in the chair and just allowing you that sacred time. And you said that's a love that you don't often hear about when your husband trusts in you during your labor. And I just thought that that was the most well said line of the documentary. Is you believing in yourself?

But also your midwife allowing you that space and especially your partner, you know, allowing you to, when you watch the movie, you will see Emily making her primal sounds, experiencing the sensations of labor that always. Aren't so comfortable and no one in the room panicking or trying to save you, right?

Like I took away from this film. Like you don't need to be saved. You just need to have everyone letting you do your thing. Now we're going to take a short break to just share a few things with you. Things for listening to the birth story podcast. I am so excited to announce the launch of my book. Birth story, a 42 week guide for your pregnancy, a collection of these birth stories, a ton of doula advice and journaling.

You can order a copy today@birthstory.com. It also will mean the world to me. If you'll spread the word about this podcast, so on Stitcher or on iTunes, just leave a review. Thanks. So I want to know, what was your thing? Like what were you doing? I, in that film, you hear you coaching yourself, but I was wondering if you had any kind of like hip, no anesthesia that you did for yourself, or, you know, a mantra.

I want to know like what was going on in Emily's mind. Yeah. So. My birth preparation always is to just get really used to being in an altered state of consciousness. And pregnancy does that to you naturally. I mean, we fight it, we call it mommy brain and belittle it, but really it's a chance for you to constantly be practicing how to get into meditative mind.

To turn off the, you the ego that thinks it's you like, it's funny, you say I'm coaching myself because there was like a party me that isn't like me, the person living in this body, you know, 38 years old, or, you know, that me is the person that I'm coaching. But the person that's coaching that is like my essence, my intuitive mammalian self, who already knows how to give birth and knows that my human body ego is going to have hangups like this hurts, or how long has it been or what if this is going on or, or whatever, you know?

And so my instinctual self, my meditative mind is reminding like my. Ego self it's. Okay. You know how to do this? I got you just, you know, let the pain come, let it go. And so I wasn't consciously choosing those words. They were just pouring out of me, sort of like moaning does or yelling does like all the other panting, like during sex, during birth, those things just come out of you.

Right. You don't have to decide what they're going to sound like. And so that's what those, the self-talk was too. So really. I just, just dropped down and I think it's a gift that I've done that a lot. My whole life I've been called kind of Spacey my whole life. And so I've been practicing since I was a child, I think kind of just floating away from the body and I kind of letting that space guide you.

Yeah. And I think that's the point of hypnosis. It's just to. To get people there who aren't used to it, giving them a framework of how to get there. Yeah. If they've never, if they haven't been doing this since. Yes. Because we're very busy and we're very practical, very, very grounded, you know? And ironically in birth, you have to be like the most grounded you've ever been.

And also just let yourself like blast off to the edge of the universe that you have to like, let yourself stretch in between both places and just try to exist in both places at the same time. Yeah. Which is, you know, a bitch, but. We do it. And that's why birth is so magic. Yeah. So magic, because I do want to acknowledge too, that there was a moment at the end of your birth that I witnessed all the time and natural childbirth.

And again, I'm witnessing the birds in the hospital setting in your home, but, but there was a moment where you had to reframe to write like that really intense moment, right. At the end, when you were like, Ooh, you know, That I don't, I don't know. And I can do this, right. Yeah. You know, and it's when, when, um, like say Carrie and I hear this, we're like, Oh yeah, here we go.

You know, game on. Right. Did you intuitively know when you got to that point or you were saying. Like saying out loud and really having to coach yourself stronger. Like, Ooh, I don't did you intuitively know, okay, this is the end knew it was the end of the whole time because my whole birth was basically pushing.

Yeah. So at the beginning of the film, I'm kind of laundering around and then I go into the bathroom and I feel my water's leaking down my leg. And the film crew had just shown up maybe. 15 or 20 minutes before that. And my thought was, Oh shit, there is not going to be a movie. Just like my bad, you guys, you can do a lot with 20 minutes.

And so I was like, well, whatever, this is what, so I went to the place where I wanted to give birth and I expected the baby to come within the next five or 10 minutes. And she just didn't and she did it. And it was 90 minutes of pushing. And that's, you know, even with my first birth, I maybe had half an hour of like not intense pushing.

So it was very unusual for me. And I knew there was something off, I guess, about that. And she was in what they call in the obstetrical world, deep transverse arrest, meaning her head was turned to the side and deflects and she was just not moving through the pelvis, despite the strong attractions. And so I was, you know, it was hard.

It was like, The end of transition, moving to pushing for 90 minutes straight. And you know, those of you with long labors, I accept the SPAC across the face for me saying that it was a long time, but for me it really was, and it was painful because there was no movement, no change, no change. And so I was in that space where it's like, I can't do this anymore.

I'm done, I'm done. I'm done. I'm done for a long time. But at the end of every contraction, I was like, I'm not done. It's okay. Like we could do another one, but the peak of every contraction, it was that transition point where you're like finished with this forever. Um, and I didn't know that was going to change until it really suddenly changed.

And I could feel her head just like pound down into my pelvis. And you can see the adrenaline kick in, in the film. Like I pop up and my eyes get kinda crazy and I'm like, Whoa. Okay, well off. And then I knew it was the end. And I think, which is right after you say something like, why is this so hard for me and weeping a little, which is yeah.

Always the recognizable, like, okay, now we're really here now that she's willing to weep, we're getting stuff. Yeah. And that's universal home hospital everywhere. Yeah. That's what I think is so beautiful about sharing the film in like in front of a live audience, because a lot of the people that come haven't had a home birth, like a lot of people haven't had a home birth and, and.

People always come up to me afterwards and pick out these little moments where it relates exactly to something they did in their birth we're in there, even if they had a scenario in their postpartum or in their early labor or something that I say to myself, that's like speaks exactly to them in their experience.

And I just find that so beautiful that it's not like you don't have to have. I'm not saying you should even have a birth like this. This is just what my birth was like, but it's just a human experience, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Well, a couple of things that just stood out to me in the film is that you didn't have any vaginal exams you did until I did.

They were by me. Oh, you were doing, I mean, I was feeling this out and I was like, I wonder what she's doing and checking my cervix. I was checking her head because she wasn't, nothing was. Changing. I was expecting for her to be born because that was pushing. And so I felt, and I could just feel that her head was not coming out yet 10, because this was a, an operation of a business with a lot of different contracts and legal consulting and everything else.

We weren't in a relationship of that nature, where there was a provider expectation to perform those things, because it was not, you know, the, the focus of her desire, but also of the film. And so there was not a space for some of the things that you might typically expect. I should have asked if I wanted her to, and I did, there was a point where I thought, should I ask Carrie to do something.

Or to say something or something like, well, we share some eyes that you can notice if that for it, where we're like, I'm like, all right, man, she's asking me and she knows it. Okay. Or, you know, with her eyes. And I'm like shaking my head, like, uh, nothing. But then I thought to myself, really, what would she do?

Right. She can't get the baby. She can't gang the baby out of there. What else is there to do? And you were in a bar, beautiful body led position, right? So you were talking about how your back was hurting, which would indicate the baby's position and you were naturally leaning. For word over the bed every time, you know, you kind of stopped or walked, you would move in a forward leaning position.

And then the remainder of the birth is next to the fireplace and your living room in a deep squat, almost kind of turned to the side, which I believe is. I'm assuming that you didn't go, Oh, I should lean to the right. But your body told you to lean to the right because of the way your baby's head was positioned because you allowed space to listen to what your body was telling you to do, because if someone else was guiding you, they may have wanted you to squat in a centered position or squatted, more left leaning, but your body knew exactly what was.

Comfortable ish, you know, by being in a deep squat and tilted to the right, which allowed your baby's head to turn finally and come down and come out and you can see in one scene, I'm pushing on my, like right above my pubic bone with my hand, which I didn't remember doing, which would make sense to kind of like give pressure to the baby to kind of like slide under the pubic bone.

Yup. And then you burn to her. I finally did. And it was amazing. And I wanted to know how long you had many undisturbed minutes. Uh, if not longer than that or with the baby and that, but in reality, how long was it before, um, you felt the placenta releasing and delivered your placenta? Oh, goodness. I have no idea.

Same as what it looks like. I mean, under 10 minutes. Yeah, definitely. Okay. I wasn't sure if there was editing there or if it was about an accurate timeline overall, a little, you know, but a time alteration, but that's mostly accurate. So your placenta released on its own without Pitocin as they do. Yep.

There was minimal bleeding. Yeah. And, um, and then you lay on the couch and she finds her way without anyone's hands or prompting to her first. Very strong, you know, latch. And, um, there was just this beautiful moment with you guys on the couch. And still there was moments where you could see that your husband was kind of serving you, like making you a glass of water, bringing you things.

But I believe that, you know, the purpose of your film is to show women that they can do it all by themselves. Yes. That they can, and they don't have to. Some people really like to have a lot of support and some people like to have medication, or they like to have the safe feeling of the medical team at the hospital or whatever, like people really should do what they want.

But I think that it does us a disservice in our culture to assume that everybody needs, that wants that. I think that they should know that there's an option to do it a different way. And that really barring any. Unusual health issue that your body does know how to do it. Like look around at the planet.

There's a couple people here. It's the birth process does work, right? Like, and the help is much better placed after. Yes. Well seen in the film too. Like you need help walking and managing your bleeding, where it is on the body. You know, there's just a plenty of support that we're less comfortable as a culture offering instead of saving folks or scaring.

Yeah. Yes. And Carrie, you were there right away. And I had a question on it. The cord was tied with. I saw you snipped something. And I was like, well, that doesn't look like a something I've seen in the hospital before. We had done a blessing way. I think where we used that cord maybe to go around between, I think it's one of the child's made and yes, my child Aiden did a finger knitted cord tie that we sterilized to use for the baby.

So beautiful. I just saw this moment of something I hadn't seen before, and I just wanted to see what it was. And then another thing was, you know, right at the end, too, Carrie comes over and says, do you want the herbs? Or do you want the ibuprofen? All of it. Right, right. Like the baby out. And we've had this and now, uh, you know, I'm ready to, you know, have an estimate.

Totally. And I. Can we talk about what those herbs are that you may recommend post-birth along with ibuprofen? Yeah. The ibuprofen usually goes on board pretty quick. Right? We did Cal-Mag liquid Cal-Mag every few hours. And I had tinctures of cramp bark, um, ghost pipe, which is an unusual one catnip. Maybe that's it.

Maybe there was another one. So I took a dropper full of each of the tinctures and two tablespoons of liquid calcium, magnesium, and 600 ibuprofen, every four hours for the first day or so. Well, not the ibuprofen. I took that like, as you know, on the bottle, I took that for the first day. And then I took the herbs and the calcium magnesium for a few days.

For after pains because I get them pretty strong. They make me really uncomfortable. It's like going into labor again for the first couple of days. And I just really wanted to enjoy my postpartum and not be riving while I nursed. Yeah. So I, you know, I asked a mother of 11 children, what does she do for after pains?

Cause they usually get stronger with each child. And I brought a notebook and wrote down everything she said, and I did everything she said, and we added ghost pipe because we know that's good for pain. And do you also, we're really mindful of keeping your bladder empty and of pushing out clots right after the birth, rather than a lot of fundal massage or anything like that.

You don't see the conversation about it in the film. You see her squat in the shower and she's pushing clots out, but that's the. The natural way to do that instead of someone doing it to you in that early painful way. So she just continued, you know, keeping her uterus empty and resting pretty radically.

Yes. Partying too radical rest. Yeah. I did nothing quite a lot of broth, all the things that you tell people to do for the postpartum, all the things that are in all the best postpartum books out there right now, you know, there's so many new postpartum books, you know, eat. Warming liquid food, easy to digest.

Don't get up, have a bunch of herbal tea, have people do stuff for you. Be totally pampered. And I just went, yeah, like all in on that. And it was like the most magical time in my life. It was like, it was so worth it. I spent all the money and got a postpartum doula to come for eight hours every week and enlisted my family to do specific things.

And it was so worth it. It was so worth it. Yeah. And then the film ends. I mean, this is where I really started balling because, well, I don't, maybe I shouldn't give it away. Well, let's not give it away. You have to watch the film. Everybody. There's no one to cry, but the end of the film is going to make your heart melt, make you ball, grab some tissues.

The finale is incredible. Everyone just was going to have to watch it. Then they want to know what it is. We're just going to leave it at that, but there's a really, really cool moment at the end. And so I just want to thank you for coming on and sharing so much of this story because it's a very important to me that I've grown a platform to talk about birth stories and that my own personal experience exists in a hospital setting.

But I'm trying to open up to all of the ways in which we do give birth and can give birth so that anyone who's listening that's either pregnant or planning. Their pregnancy knows that home birth is an option that. Home birth with a doula or with touch or support is an option home birth undisturbed as an option.

All of those things at a birth center or at a hospital are also options, but really getting to that point where you address your fears and your trauma, and you build a relationship. So that you are prepared for, you know, a beautiful birth. And so that's why I wanted to interview you guys today. Is there, um, anything else on your heart that we can leave with our listeners?

I have something in speaking to this, being the birth story podcast. I just, I really want to impress upon people that. Our intent with this film is not to have a platform where we state that anyone should do anything. And really it's our point is that a birth story is worthy of a full feature documentary.

It's worthy of someone making a, a unique score musicians spending their time, right. Composing music. To play over the film. It's worthy of a whole documentary crew flying across the country to film it. And it's worthy of being a piece of art simply because it's a birth. Yeah. And then that's the point of the film really is that this act that we do to bring life into the world is a piece of art and it is worthy of being its own story.

Not just a punchline in a larger story, the way it's usually shown, but it itself is the journey, the hero's journey. Yep. I wish that I could have a composer play music over all of the stories that I have, um, moms and their partners share on this podcast. Well, before we go, I just have one more thing. So I usually ask people what their favorite baby product is, but I'm not doing that today.

I was hoping that you would just tell me three things to three people. So. If you could tell Carrie what you're most thankful for looking back on this documentary and your birth and your husband and your mom that were there in the middle of the night with you. Yeah. And to get through all of those without weeping, what are you going to cry?

I'll cry to you. Okay. Oh dear. Okay.

Okay. So I'll start with my mom. Cause I knew her first mom, you gave me such an incredible gift. You burst me into the world with joy. You taught me that it's beautiful to be born. That's beautiful to grow a human. You taught me how to feed them with my body and not be ashamed of it. And you showed me that you trusted me to be an adult when you came to my birth and allowed me to step into my power and just silently, watch me carry you, taught me how to be a better midwife.

Teach me how to talk to people, how to listen to them, had to change. Be humble.

And then in the same moment, be a badass,

you okay. Kept me feeling safe. Like I didn't have to worry about anything. I knew you were holding down everything and you always do. And to Jason.

Thanks for letting me take on the mantle of the powerful one in our family. Thank you for knowing how to sit quietly and help me and not take over the experience. Not question what I'm doing. Never make me feel like I'm too much or. Scary or unsafe or unfit or unwell. When I do something that's atypical for always supporting me and for loving our babies so much.

I have two. Thank you. And I just wanted to say from me to you guys, thank you for this documentary. And for sharing your story and for telling your story, because after today, I'm it changed forever. I have gone into every birth for 15 years, believing that I needed to coach. Then I needed to touch that I needed to support and no one had ever opened my eyes to maybe that's not what the mom needed.

And so my practice is forever going to be changed too. And for this I thank you guys for being here. All of the ways to get in touch with you will be linked in the show notes. And I hope everyone gets the finale of your story behind going to your website. These are my hours and within just a couple of clicks, buying your documentary and watching it.

Thank you. Thank you so much, Heidi. Thank you. You're welcome.

Thank you for listening. Coming to birth story, Michael is you'll walk away from each episode with a clear picture of how labor and delivery might go and that you will feel empowered by the end of your pregnancy to speak up plan and prepare for the birth you want. No matter what that looks like.