48 Five Homebirths Over the Course of 20 Years
Today's episode is an episode SWAP from the amazing Doing it at Home aka DIAH Podcast with hosts Matthew and Sarah Bivens
In today’s episode we chat with Melissa Rae Irish-Miller. I’m not even really sure with where to begin with this episode or what to tell you as far as the highlights...because there are too many!
Melissa is a mother of 5. And all 5 of her children were born at home. And over the course of 20 years. Her oldest is 21 years old, and her youngest is 7 months old.
We go through each birth with Melissa, and she shares the main themes, lessons, moments from all of them. She has such vivid memory and detail of each one, and they’re all so beautifully different and unique in their own right.
It’s crazy how we talk about how each birth is so different, but it’s even true with the same woman - no one birth story is the same.
There’s incredible wisdom that comes with the experience of motherhood. And Melissa is such a great example of that, having entered it in a new way 5 different times.
You definitely don’t want to miss this one. Enjoy!
Notes:
TRANSCRIPTION
Hey guys, did you enjoy episode 47 with Matthew and Sarah Bivins with the, doing it at home podcast? They're amazing. Continuing on. We decided to do a podcast swap. So episode 48, here we are. It's actually from Matthew and Sarah Bivins and from the doing it at home podcast. Hey, I'm Sarah. When planning our home birth, my husband, Matthew and I were really frustrated by the lack of empowering and honest home birth resources.
So we created this podcast to start a new conversation for moms and families like us. This is doing it at home. Hello everyone. Welcome to the doing it at home podcast. Today's episode is just. So, so awesome. We talk with Melissa and I had been looking forward to talking to Melissa for a very long time.
Melissa has had five home births, five home births. So that's the most home births from anyone that we have spoken with thus far on the show. And they span over the course of 20 years, which is. Amazing at the time we speak her oldest child is 21 and her youngest is seven months and she has such vivid details and memories of all of them.
And they're all beautifully unique. And it's just so awesome. Like I said at the beginning. So I'm going to shut up and just let you listen in on this goodness. Hi, Melissa. Welcome to the doing it at home podcast. How are you? I'm great. How are you? Oh, we're awesome. Yeah, we're doing fantastic. Or enjoying this beautiful day here in Atlanta and we are super, super excited to be talking with you and you're all the way on the other end of the country, which is so much fun.
Once again. Thank you for joining us. Yeah. You know, I'm really excited to talk to you guys. I love what you're doing. Giving exposure to home. Birth is amazing. So I'm super stoked to be talking to you today and you have some experience with home birth. Well, we'll be getting into that, but just, just to share the context of that, why don't you tell us a little bit about your family and who's in it?
So, um, my name is Melissa and I live here in. Gorgeous amazing Ashland, Oregon with, um, my five kids. And so my first three babies, I guess they're not, they're not babies anymore, but my first three, I got married to my first husband, real young. We were, I was 18 and we even had three children together, just CYA, Elijah and Eliana.
And they are now 21, 19 and 17. So they're basically adults. Um, and then when I was 34, I think I met my second husband and we have Luna who is four and Kiran, who just turned 10 months yesterday. So, uh, yeah, lots of babies over my lifetime. They these and all of them home births. Correct. Exactly. All of them home Birch.
Yeah. Starting way back in 1996. Wow. Wow. That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. So your first home birth baby to now, I mean, there's so much we could get into which I want to a little bit later on how home birth as a, as a culture and a concept and an experience has changed over that time. I imagine that it has to be the insane how different it is.
Yeah. So could you no, each birth, you know, we talked a little bit before we hit record. We could do an entire episode on each one, but what are some of the, the highlights or the big things you got out of? Um, each, each bird I actually want to jump in and ask you this question before we get into that, Melissa, when you were 19, I wanna, I want to understand, like, was homebirth always something that you just knew you were going to do?
Was it something like, how did you arrive at home birth for yourself? Really interesting. So, um, so my ex husband and I, we got married, you know, young, and we had actually planned to wait a few years before we got pregnant. And, um, my mom ended up getting breast cancer diagnosed right after we got married and I like panicked, you know?
Oh my gosh, let us to, if she doesn't make it, I want her to see one of my babies. So that totally changed kind of our plan. And we, you know, I got off birth control when we got pregnant. Pretty much four months after we were married. My mom's amazing and fine. And you know, like a 22 year survivor now. Um, but I didn't see, I never thought about it.
I had never thought about it as I suppose, young who did that. So, um, the only, it was interesting because it was like I got pregnant and I just knew. I didn't want to be here in the hospital. I just, I just had this like really strong feeling of, I think I want to do this at home, which I had only known one person in our family who had home birth.
Um, and that was my mom's brother. So his wife, all of their children were born at home. Um, and I always thought that was kind of cool, but it never. I never really thought, well, I'm going to have mine at home. Um, but when I got pregnant, it just felt like the right thing for me. And thankfully, you know, I've really lucked out in the husband department.
Both of my husbands have been amazing and just completely onboard with it, which is awesome. Cause that doesn't always happen. Right. So, um, so my husband's and judge, he was like, yeah, let's, let's do it at home. Awesome. So, um, yeah, so that's, we found the Midwest and went from there and it just always seemed like, like the right thing for us.
And then after your first, sorry, go ahead. Um, I was going to say, and then after your first home birth, it's like no brainer. You can know when everything goes smoothly. Oh, okay. We'll just have the second one. And then the third one out. That's so cool. Wow. So what was the response from your family? Like when, you know, at 19, when you said, Hey, I'm going to have this baby at home.
Um, so I think if they questioned it, they didn't really say, um, I know, you know, My parents were always really supportive of it. My grandmother was probably the most vocal. She was the most concerned. Um, but everybody was really pretty supportive. I think my ex husband's family was a little like, what the heck are you doing?
But, um, but they never, they never challenged us. They never gave us a hard time. They just kind of accepted that this was our journey and our choice. And we always told them, you know, these are really trained professionals and if something. Goes wrong. We will end up at the hospital. That's what hospitals are for.
So, and, and they had met the midwife. You know, my mom was always really involved in, um, in our appointments. She was come. And so I, they just, they were pretty comfortable with it, which was amazing to have that support system. And I think my, my mother has been at every, she has been at every single birth, which is awesome.
Yeah. That is really cool. Thank you for, for thinking of that. Matthew. I want to jump right into like, talk about the worst fear. Like, wait a second. How did we get there? So that's thank you for that backstory. Are you comfortable without jumping into yes, absolutely comfortable. We may proceed. I won't. I just, I mean, each of them.
Must be so beautiful and unique, but I'm, you know, I'm just curious what strings them all together. What some of the, like the, and then this happened in this one. So, I mean, the floor is yours in, in whatever fashion or order you want to talk about this? I, we are open. Okay. I'll probably just because it's easier for me.
So in chronological. Sure. That makes sense. Otherwise, I make it a little confused. So, you know, this, my first baby was pretty common. I would say stereotypical first child labor. I don't remember exactly what time contraction started. It's been 21 years, but, um, you know, can I remember contractions starting kind of light?
And I called the midwife and I hadn't done in labor and she came over and I was having prodromal labor. So it was, it wasn't super active. I think I was at about two centimeters when she got there. And so we did the usual. Let's walk let's, you know, just kind of get things moving, go shopping, get on with your day.
And so we did that for pretty much into the evening and contractions never really it's that super close. Like they always were about five to 10 minutes apart. Never got super close together and, um, I dilated to a six. And then kind of stalled out for like, gosh, I think it was like 12 hours or something and you know, they're monitoring, baby baby was fine.
And finally they said, I think we're going to need to get something going here. So we chose at that point, uh, to have them break my waters and. He actually had like a, almost like a double ball bag. They said it was just like this super thick bag and his head, there was so much water in front of his head.
He wasn't engaging. Cause the construct contractions just, you know, nothing was strong. So they broke my water and of course then his head engaged and I was in labor and I remember, you know, we went for a run walk right after they broke my waters and coming back up the Hill from my house, just. Crying, you know, I was so young and I was like, I don't think I'm ready to be a mom.
So sticks out in my head. And my ex husband said, you don't have a choice now clear. And that kind of like snapped me out of it. And I was like, yeah, I guess I don't need this. Baby's coming out. And from that point, from the point of breaking my waters, didn't being born was about four hours. So, um, I had, I pushed.
Long and hard with him. I think it was about two and a half hours of pushing. I, you know, had minor tearing. I think I got three stitches and I just remember feeling that first day we just chilling at one point, like, I think I'm going to die. I think I might die. It just hurts so bad. And my midwife had told me that because I was like, what is it going to feel like, what is it going to feel like?
And. I remember she looked at me and she said, there will be a point where you think you're dying, but you're not. And then your baby's going to be born. And it really kind of went like that. I thought I can't do this. I'm going to die. I can't do it. And then, you know, there he was. And, and you forget all about it.
It's just, it's so birth every time that just it's it's, it's fascinating to me how you're in so much pain and you think there's no way. I'm doing this again, or there's no way, there's no way I'm getting through this and then that baby's in your arms and immediately it's. I mean, yes, I'll do it again.
It's just so amazing. Um, so yeah, so he was born and he was tired. It was a long labor. And so he, he didn't really cry when he was born. And I, I woke up that like a couple hours later, we went to sleep, you know, he sort of nursed a little, he didn't. He was just tired. I mean, we slept for a couple hours and then I woke up to this baby crying, you know, after what it was like 36 hours of, you know, kind of drawn out labor.
And I just remember being, waking up, going like, Oh my God, I had a baby.
Yeah. And he was, he was such an easy baby. I got totally spoiled. The first time total was just a super kind of. Chill, human being, um, and sweet, just a sweet, sweet human. And he's still sweet at 21. He still is my he'll come over sometimes just to say, I love you and give me a hug. Let me take off and goes back home.
She's still, he lives here. Yeah. I live here in Ashland. This is with his girlfriends. And so it's, it's awesome that I get to see him often. Um, and then my second. Son. So they're two years apart. The boys are, uh, and definitely really planned him. I, I just had this feeling. I pretty much knew I'm, I'm going to have a boy again, and I want them to be best buddies and I want him to be close together.
And so we tried to get pregnant with Eli and it happened pretty much the same, or second month we tried and, um, And he, so his birth was a little more intro, just unexpected, I guess. Uh, you know, after you have your first baby and it's long and it's drying out, you kind of think you kind of think labor is that you don't really, you know, and everybody tells you, well, it gets shorter.
It gets easier. But in my head, I just thought that's that's birth. That's what it's going to be. And so we actually had just, we were in the process of purchasing our first home. And we had moved in with my parents while it closed. And so the plan was we would be moved out and have the baby in our new house and that didn't work exactly Jack like that.
And he decided to come a month early and it was back then now, now, now most of them, the wives will not do a home birth under 37 weeks. Um, that was in 1988 or 1998. Sorry. And. The protocol then was 36 weeks. So I had just made, I had just made 36 weeks to the day and woke up at about 11 o'clock at night. I think it was about 11, 1130 at night woke up having contractions and I left.
My husband and my older son in the bed asleep. And I thought I'm just going to kind of go downstairs and walk around and see if this is real labor before I wake anybody up or call them neglect for anything. And I don't know how long I was down there having contractions and walking. And I always do. I always wait, this is, this is the running theme from this birth on the running theme is.
Melissa waits too long. So I thought, well, I'm just gonna, you know, I want to wait until I'm like moaning through contractions or something for it to be really rude. I went to the bathroom at one point and I had bloody show. And so I, then I called my midwife and she was about an hour from where we lived.
And so she had to shed quite a drive to get there. And by the time she got there, I don't know how, I mean, I was close. I was probably hitting transition and I had planned to have a water birth filled up the tub, got in, got out at one point and labor happened and I never got back into the water. And so I, you know, he was born on dry land as I like to say.
So his, his birth was fast. It was like four hours start to finish and, and his birth was only birth. I can say. Was not painful. I feel like, I feel like I just breathed him out. I just was breathing through contractions. It wasn't. I never had that feeling of, Oh shit. You know, just, I didn't have that like horrible, intense, you know, sometimes it just hits you like a freight train.
I didn't have that with him. It just was really gentle. The whole birth was really sweet and gentle and I was determined not to tear. So I specifically. Breathed his head out and tried not, I didn't push. I never, I didn't really bare down until it was time to get his shoulders out. And he, um, yeah, he just came out.
He was, my first baby was eight, six, just, I was eight pounds, six ounces. DUI was a month early and he was seven four, which is pretty big for a month. Or at least I probably would have been attempt 10 counties. Um, but he, he was done definitely premature. He was really lethargic. In terms of nursing. I used, I had to like poke his feet and rub his cheeks and try to wake him up.
That first month of nursing with him was really, really hard. It was definitely, it was a struggle. Uh, and, but he, his birth was just incredible. And I have actually have somewhere on a VHS tape.
Right. I know I need to get it transferred to a digital file or something that, um, Yeah, his burns was just awesome. And so then two years later, well, we actually, at that point, we kind of thought maybe looks let's stop. We have these two boys are beautiful, but stop having babies. Uh, so we. Made a vasectomy appointment for him.
And two weeks after we had made the appointment, we found out I was pregnant with my daughter. Oh wow. Glad she snuck in there. And I got, you know, I got my first girl. Um, so each she's two years younger than Eli. So they're all two years apart, this first three. And again, you know, her birth. I well, with hers, I thought, well, I went early with my last one.
So I expected from like 34 weeks on, I was ready and I thought this baby's coming she's she might come earlier. I might end up at the hospital notes. Cause a lot of times that happens. If you have one early, they'll kind of get earlier with each birth that did not happen. She was 41 weeks. Oh, she didn't send it to people.
So that last five weeks of my pregnancy, I just, you know, I thought any minute, any minute, and I have tons of practice, contractions, nothing, nothing, nothing. And then finally it was getting close to Christmas. She was born December 15th and I think. The day before my midwife said to me, you want to try some, some cohosh or some herbs to see if we can get things moving.
And so she did give me some herbs and I think that kind of kicked it in the butt. And, um, and her labor was ridiculously precipitous. I, my husband had just left for work. I had the two little kids and it just, I think I'd had like two contractions before he left. And I said, you know, I've been having contractions for a month.
This is probably not labor. Back then we didn't back then really aging myself. We didn't have cell phones, she had a pager. And so I said, I'll, you know, I'll take you if it takes up whatever, again, thinking I probably have at least four hours. Okay. And he left and I think he has like half an hour after he left labor, just kit.
And I have the most vivid memory of being on the floor. Hint changing my two year old diaper while I was just like moaning through contraction. And my four year old, my four year old going, mommy, are you doing baby here? All my mom, I paged my husband. And I think my mom got there. I mean, it was a blur, literally it was just like labor hit and I was just breathing and moaning and trying not to have.
The baby before people got there. And so my mom showed up, my husband showed up and shortly after they showed up, I knew I had to push. And I don't know why I didn't. I think it was just because I was so young. I was 23 at that point. And I didn't push, I, I was waiting for the midwife to get there. So I was just on hands and knees, breathing and moaning.
And my midwife got there. And she checked me and she literally, like, she had her fingers in checking me and she pulled her hand out and she looked at me and she goes, go, and I just w it was two bushes and she shot out, wow. Braid my midwife with amniotic fluid. I mean, it was, it was just like this. Rocket ship of a childbirth.
And I, again, was planning on birthing in the water. We had the big trough tub in the living room that was about two inches filled when she was born. So she didn't get to be born in the water. We did float after which I have some great photos of us with her, you know, floating. And she was huge. She was nine pounds, 10 ounces.
Wow. And, um, I didn't care. And she just, I mean, she came fast. And that was Eliana and she's still kind of that way. It's interesting. Like you can look at your birth and your kids' personalities and think is there a really, there might be a correlation here cause I love that second. My second son is just, I mean, chill almost doesn't describe him.
He is like the most easygoing human. Just okay. Everything was like really slow and he's always been the one that takes half an hour to put his shoes on, but, but it's just pain, you know, it's, it's painless with him. Like that was my birth and, and Ellie Ellie's a little bit more, she's intense. She knows what she wants.
She knows how to go get it. She's she's just a big, you know, she's got this huge, gorgeous personality and. She had a big burst and it was, you know, and it's interesting because the perverse was definitely just as painful, I guess I would describe that intense sensation as my first son, but because once you've had a baby or two, I never had that moment of I'm going to die.
Right. I never had that moment again in childbirth from, from that point on every birth. Was just kind of like, Oh, here's the part that sucks. Okay. But knowing, knowing that joy that comes after, I mean, it's almost addicting. It's almost addicting that feeling of that slippery little newborn, it's just incredible that moment, which I'm sure you can relate to that, that moment when you've just seeing this little person, this little person that was in you the whole time.
It's. It's phenomenal. I can't imagine which is why I love being at home because I can't imagine, I don't know. I, you know, I've been to, I wasn't doula for awhile, so I've, I've been to hospital births and there's just a lot going on, you know, oftentimes it's, it's a little bit noisier. It's a little bit brighter.
There's more people in and out of the room and, and having that moment where it's just so sacred and so quiet and just, Ugh. Oh, it's me and my baby. You know, that sweetness that I think a lot of times you're able to get more at home, especially if there's no complications and you know, it seems like midwives are so incredible at giving you that steak.
Did you have that first moment so precious and you never get it back? You know, that's your first year, you know, it's your first meeting with her. With your child, it's precious. And, um, yeah, if you highly recommend, if you can and you're healthy and everything is fine, consider it because it's, it's just a sweet and then you get to go to your own bed, which is like nothing else, you know, to be able to climb in your own bed with your baby and, and have your own food and your everything, everything that's comfort to you.
Uh, and you're in that moment is, is pretty awesome. I feel really good. Blessed to have had amazing for one thing. I had the same midwife with my first three children and, um, and then, you know, she had retired at the time. I had my last babies, but I don't know if we need, if you want me to segue into my.
Money? Yes. So you took a break from the baby-making game, but then you got back in there. I, um, so my ex husband and I, you know, he's an amazing guy. We're, we're great friends and he's a phenomenal father, but we parted ways, um, when I was in my early thirties. And so, so yeah, I, you know, I didn't ever think I was going to have.
More children. I didn't even know that I was going to get married again for, for one thing. I kind of thought maybe I'll just be, you know, single from this point on. And, and I met Joe in a yoga class and that, I mean, we kind of met and started this amazing friendship and, and never looked back. Like we just hit it off immediately.
And so he. Is three years younger than me. And he had led this phenomenal life of travel and fun, and he landed here in Ashland, Oregon a few months before I met him, just kind of randomly. And, uh, I snapped him up and now he's back here with me. I love it. But, uh, he, yeah, he didn't have any children and. So it was interesting.
It was interesting because we met, we fell in love when you're, you know, this is, we just knew it was like coming home, meeting each other. We just knew we were going to be together for probably the rest of our lives, but definitely a very long time. And, um, and so one day he used to travel a lot for work and he was, uh, back in a day or two away from leaving to go, but it was his job.
And. We looked at each other and he said, I really feel like we should have a baby. And I said, I really feel like we should too. And we had this conversation before we even discussed marriage, but it was like, yeah, I feel like there's a baby that wants to come through us. And so we tried one time and she came through, I mean, she, I got pregnant.
With one track. And I thought, you know, he jokes with me because I'm older than him. He's like, you know, you're, you're not getting any younger, you're 35 or maybe I, maybe I was, I'm trying to think, Oh, I would think I was 34 when I got pregnant with her and 35 when I had her. Yes, that's correct. So, so, you know, we kind of both, almost that it might take awhile.
It might, you know, I may not be as fertile as I was when I was young and. It did not click awhile. So, and we actually had had, because he'd asked me about my, my other three children and their births. And so we had had that conversation a little bit. He knew I had had my first three at home and, but he said he had never, he said, it's interesting.
Cause she kind of grew up in city. I was always a small town kind of country girl. And he said, you know, in LA he's like, nobody. Even mentioned home birth. He said, it's just, you go to the hospital. And most of the time you have it, this area, he said, that's just what, what his concept of birth was, was you go to the hospital and probably they're gonna do surgery.
And then you have a baby. And, uh, and so when, when I got pregnant and I said, we're going to do a home birth. She was like, I'd never thought of that. But okay. Let's do it. That's cool. Um, yeah, and I had, I had a really cool nature path who was also a midwife and I had been seeing her just for my women's health.
And so, um, and it was funny because before we had made the decision to get pregnant, I had seen her for my annual exam and. She looked at me. She goes, I feel like I'm going to be seeing you soon because you're going to get pregnant and get pregnant. And I did. And so she, she was awesome. Um, and we, of course I planned a water birth again, this time I got it.
Um, so yeah, Linda Linda's pregnancy, you know, I kind of went into it thinking. I don't know. It's funny cause that's 30, 30, four, 35. That's not old, but because I had my first three, so young, I kept anticipating maybe something will be wrong. Maybe, maybe pregnancy won't be as easy. Maybe this, maybe that. And so we even had looked at like possibly finding a doctor who would, who would be our backup in case.
And. Interestingly enough here where I live, doctors are not huge fans of backing up midwives. So there are some midwives. No, it's crazy. There are some Midwest who have good relationships with doctors. So if you happen to get transferred and that doctor happens to be on call, then you're going to have a great, you know, you will have a good rapport and all of that, but that there is not one doctor in our town or in the town.
There's a town, a little bit North of us, but bigger. That has bigger hospitals and a NICU and you know, that stuff and nobody in that town, Rebecca midwife, nobody in Ashland will back a midwife. I think it's a liability thing. I don't know. And so, yeah, so we literally, I couldn't find a doctor if we said we're planning a home birth, but we want to back up.
And they were like, if you're planning a home birth, we're not backing you up. So, so it was just like, okay, but we won't have a doctors with that. We have a relationship with, we'll just transfer if we need to. But we kind of had that in the back of her head. So like maybe something. Won't go perfectly this time.
And it was totally easy pregnancy, super easy. It was just, it went perfectly and she was, you know, I think I turned her, so she was born at 2:11 AM and I labor started for me around it started maybe kind of. Slowly around 10, I'd say about 10 o'clock, but I wasn't paying, it was like, these don't hurt.
They're 20 minutes apart until they get closer. I'm not calling this labor because again, I've had, I've had multiple contractions for, you know, weeks leading up and, and so I had a few and I thought, eh, whatever, I'll go on, go on with my evening, try to go to sleep. And then when I, I couldn't really get comfortable, I thought, okay, maybe something's brewing.
So we got up and I sat on the yoga ball for a little while. And around midnight I had, I walked into the kitchen and then a contraction came and I had to moan through it. And Joe kept saying, do you want me to call the Midwest windy? Do you want me to call Mindy? And I was like, no, it's fine. Let's make the things really happen.
Let's just add it. He heard me mom through that. And he's like, I'm calling them because Melissa waits too long. We've learned this by now. And so this is, this is his first baby and he's like, I'm calling the midwife. Thank goodness he did. Because by the time she got there, I think it was about one or maybe, yeah, it was about one, 1:30 AM.
And, uh, So she came in, she said, do you want me to check you? I was like, sure. Kind of curious where I am. She checked me. I was eight and a half. And she said, so we, uh, we filled the tub and, and, um, Joe was from the moment we decided to have a home birth. He was like, I am catching that baby. So, and you know, and by this point I'm older.
I'm a little bit, I never, I didn't catch any of my first three. But I knew that with this one, as like, no, I'm catching this baby, you can help.
So we had both told them midwife, you know, hands off and like, you need to touch it, but we're going to do this ourselves. And so, so yeah, we both, we both caught her. I think somewhere that we may have a photo with both of our hands on her is that she came out, but it was just, you know, easy birth. There was one moment with her.
That I, you know, it's kind of like, you always have this one moment that sticks out about each birth and the one moment with her that stuck out, I was, well, we pushing, breathing, trying to ease your head out again, you know, trying to, you know, be conscious about not caring. And I had flipped around in the tub.
And so nobody could really. She really couldn't see super well what was going on. And, and I, I remember thinking, okay, so I could breathe for the next contraction. Or I could just power her head out and be done. That was the one. Yeah. Oh. But I really remember it. I like reached down and I just let out this huge, like animal scream and powered her head out.
Wow. And then Midwest, my midwife. Okay. That's crowning. She's like, okay. So the baby's crowning. I think you might want to turn it around so Joe can help you. Help you catch and they turn around and the baby's heads out. She's like, Oh, the whole head.
All right, let's have a baby. And then, you know, and then, and rebirth the rest of her. And it was, it was great. It was, you know, he helped catch and she, she was what I affectionately refer to as my booby baby. She latched on. Literally like sprint brought her to my chest and she latched on immediately. She came out.
Yeah. She came out just wanting to nurse a lot for two and a half years. Okay. Which she did and I'm not enough. I was great. And then it's interesting because, Oh, and so, you know, everybody says. That you're a lot of times, you know, your breasts get faster and faster and faster. But for me, it seems like the last three were kind of, well, at least was a little bit more precipitous, but the, the last ones were all sort of similar in that, you know, the, the, the real intense, what you would call the transition part of labor for me, um, does not last long at all, maybe a half an hour.
And then, you know, that leading up to it could be anywhere from. Four hours to an hour. So they've all been pretty quick, which is awesome because yeah, I, you know, I feel like I can do pretty much any amount of pain or intense sensation if it's only going to last a couple hours. Right. It's when you know, it's when it's.
Yeah. Is that like that first baby when it's just so drawn out that. That it gets, it gets really tight. And, um, so the beauty for me about having multiple kids is that after I had actually from my second baby on like right after the birth, so great. I'm not tired. I feel awesome. Um, you know, not worn out like no chairing with any of them.
So. Not, you know, just not sore, just it they've been, I've been so blessed for really easy, amazing birth. Um, and then, so after Luna, did I, I wasn't sure I wanted to have another baby. Um, there's, there's 12 one and a half years between Ellie and Luna. So there's, you know, a huge gap there. And, and we knew that the older kids were going to be leaving and she would.
Be less an only child, essentially. Um, and so we had a lot of discussions about whether or not we wanted to have another baby. He knew he wanted to have another one. It was more like I'm actually getting older at this point. Do I want to have another baby? And we, we did try with when Linda was two and I had a feeling, it was too thin and I did get pregnant and we had a miscarriage.
And it was a pretty intense miscarriage. I did that at home also, um, under the care of a different midwife because my previous midwife had been opened a birth center and she was sort of focused on just doing birth center birth. And so, um, I hemorrhaged. Wow. And that took, it took me, I would say, a full year to recover from physically.
And found out. We found out that I had, um, a thyroid issue. I'm a type of thyroid. So I think after I had Luna somewhere in there, you know, something went a little wonky with my thyroid. And so, you know, after the miscarriage, we ran my midwifery and the whole battery of tests and find out well you're hyperthyroid and that's probably why you haven't finished carriage.
And so worked with a good endocrinologist and. Got that under control, which took about another year. So, you know, by the time I got to where I was like, I'm feeling good, my thyroid levels are good. Everything's great. You know, at that point I was 39 and there was, I want to see when I was born, I got to think about it.
So 38, I was 38 and I told Joe, I said, okay, I will do this one last time. And. If something happens and we have a miscarriage, I'm not doing it again. And so, so we, we try then we got pregnant immediately and, you know, there was that fear, this time that was different with Kiran is that there was, cause I had never had a miscarriage.
I'd never had that fear of that first trimester worrying about losing a baby. It just had never crossed my mind. So, you know, with his pregnancy. That the first trimester was rough. I kept, you know, every time I'd go to the bathroom, I was like expecting blood and, um, and it never came. Thank God because he is awesome.
Um, but you know, he is a cutie. Yeah. And, and looking back, you know, I. It's interesting because I had my first three, two years apart and then got pregnant with that baby that we miscarried when Luna was two. And as hard as that miscarriage was, and as difficult as that experience was, I actually wouldn't change it.
I wouldn't take it back. Um, for one thing it's given me such compassion and understanding that I never had for women who have lost a child. Yeah. And, you know, being able to relate to friends and even, and it was interesting. So many women came forward saying, I've left a baby. I had left a baby who comes to me, women close to me that I'd never known my mother in law.
She's left to, you know, just all these women came out of the woodwork who were close to me, who had never shared their stories. So that was, you know, in that sense that's, that was a blessing. And it also gave me. Another two years with Lynette, essentially for it to just be the two of us. And so I got to really experience her in a way that I never got to experience my other three.
I had, you know, I had, I had that full four years with her of just soaking her up and really thinking like, this is probably my last child. So, um, that was amazing. And it's, so it was so much easier. Oh my gosh. Having a newborn and a four year old. So much easier than having a newborn and a two year old say yay.
Easier taking notes. Yeah. Yeah. We're looking at each other. Cause we've talked about the two year Mark. Yeah, I seriously, I mean, it's great if you want them to be best friends, which my boys are still best friends, but it's hard. I'm not going to lie. It's a hard age gap. Yeah, you gotta be, you gotta be ready for it.
Um, so I'm glad that I had that time with that and then got pregnant with Kieran. And again, you know, older 38, I turned 39 when I was pregnant with him. I thought it's going to be hard. Or, you know, I'm really like, I'm almost 40. This is going to be, this might not be like, and I think, I think because I was so.
Determined to not, I have a difficult pregnancy with him and because I'd had the miscarriage scare, I was so good about self care. During my pregnancy with him, I went to acupuncture almost weekly from the very beginning. I saw my chiropractor every couple of weeks, every month, you know, somewhere every month at the beginning, every couple of weeks at the end, I got massages every day, three month.
And then at the last month of my pregnancy, I got one every week. I pampered myself and it was the easiest. It was the easiest pregnancy I've had at, at 38. It was the easiest pregnancy I've had. Wow. The only exception to that was I had morning sickness for the first time. I've never been sick with any of my others and I definitely was barfing with him, but, um, which kind of made me feel good there during the first trimester, I was like, well, I'm still puking.
Most people must be healthy. Right. Right. Normally. Yeah. Yeah. And his birth was pretty similar to Luna, I would say. Um, yeah, I had a different midwife this time, so I had a different Midwest with live in a different midwife with my miscarriage. And then when I got pregnant with Kiran, it was kind of that same thing with my first baby.
I had, I do birth photography as well. So I had done births with different midwives and, um, in the time between my miscarriage and getting pregnant with Kiran, I had done a birth with. Another midwife Carra and we just really hit it off. And she's she's my age. Exactly. And so it kind of felt like this sisterhood instead of, instead of a mentorship, which at that point in my life, I really just wanted kind of like a friend who had enough medical training, that she could deal with something that came up, but I didn't want.
I didn't. I wanted to be in charge basically. And, um, and she really gave me the space to do that, which was amazing. And so, again, Joe and I fought over, who's gonna catch the baby. Mmm. And he definitely got his hands on Karen. I'd say a little more than. And when he, he was all about it, he wore a GoPro on his head.
And so the video footage that you saw of his birth was from the GoPro on Joseph.
Okay. Um, it was mine. That was mine. And I'm kinda bummed cause the angle wasn't perfect. And so you couldn't see his hands catching too. You could in the photo, which is great. But you couldn't see his hands catching in the video. You, it didn't have an angle down enough, but whatever, it's still got to see it.
Um, and so, yeah, Karen's birth was, I kept telling him, I, I think this might've worked the entire time I was pregnant. I kept telling him we're gonna wake up in the morning. And then labor is going to start. Cause I don't like being tired. I need my sleep. Right. And so I CA I kept saying, okay, baby, we're going to wake up in the morning when you, especially those last few weeks, I just kept telling him, you know, I'd have contractions.
I would always have my like little chunks of Braxton Hicks towards the end, um, at night. And so I kept telling him, yeah, can, can have some contractions within then I'm going to sleep. But if you want to be born, you're going to do it in the morning. And he listened. So I think I woke up at four in the morning with some contractions, like 20 minutes apart and I slept through them.
So, uh, probably eight. And then, um, cause it was like, I mean they made it even been a half hour apart and they weren't painful. It was just the sensation of maybe some things starting. And then we woke up and they stayed. 20 minutes apart until till about 10 in the morning in the Midwest, I think. And then I think they started, yeah, that's it.
In the morning they started to be maybe 10 minutes apart, maybe nine 30 in the morning. It started to be about 10 minutes apart. So I called the midwife and said, I'm having contractions. You might want to think about maybe coming over and. Because she kept telling me, I want you to call me if anything happens because you wait too long time to set up my stuff.
So I called her early and she came about, I think she ended up getting here about 10 and. You know, it was like, I wasn't, I mean, it didn't even feel like labor. I was like Madison contractions. No, I don't have to move through them. Yeah, they're fine. She was like, do you want me to check you again? And I thought I wasn't going to get checked, but then you're in that moment.
And you're still curious. So, okay. Technique. I think I was about seven and still like talking and everything was fine and attractions were far apart. And, and so her, she had a great. Um, assistant midwife, who said, you know, if you want, we could give you a homeopathic, if you want the contractions to get closer together.
And I was like, sure, let's make them get closer together. So they literally gave me the homeopathic I got in the shower and the next contractions were like five minutes apart. It happens so fast. Yeah. And, and then, um, And then we filled the tub and I hopped in and I didn't really have, I think, a little bit different from the other births.
I never really had a super intimate hence urge to push with him. I like, I know I was kind of pushing, but I wasn't, I didn't really mean, I didn't really feel like I needed the bear down hard until his head was already out. Or maybe just that last little bit, getting his head out. I'd have to watch it. You go back to remember, but, um, But there was kind of a stealing.
It was a weird feeling of needing to like move on. Yeah. Have surround almost, I think his head look a little Mount positioned. And so I just kind of felt like I needed to shift my hips a lot during the contractions and then, um, and then finally feel his head the whole time, like right there. But it took a while.
I think it took like 40 minutes. I mean, most of the, but I think by the time I got in the cut tub, you know, it went from seven to 10 really fast. And then. Got in the tub and was like, Oh yeah, I can just hang out here for a while. I'm just going to hang out. And, um, yeah. And then, you know, I push out what was interesting.
So we pushed his head out and I had told her, I want to sweep for the court and you can't see this on the video that I had. I had swept for the cord and I didn't feel anything. So, but Joe and I, the whole pregnancy kept talking about feeling like the data's. Baby's going to have the quarter end with Nick and.
So the midwife swept to the cord and she couldn't feel anything. And so we thought, okay, well, I guess I was wrong. I guess we were no cord. Okay. Whatever. And in that moment, even Joe and I looked at each other like, Hmm, interesting. We were expecting that cord and then pushed him out and I started to bring him up and I see the cord and I was like, Oh, cord.
And so I kind of started to unwrap it. My midwife reached over and. Got it off his neck real quick. And you know, we bring him up and it's interesting because a lot of we'll see that video and they're like, Oh my gosh, the baby was blue. The baby at the corner. He was, you know, he was struggling and, and what's, what's really important to remember about babies when they are born.
Most of them are blue in color before they take their first breath and then they pick up, um, and. And, and my midwives have all said, the most important thing to assess is their tone. So does the baby come out sloppy or maybe come out wiggling and moving and, and, you know, full of tone in their body. And so he came out and you can see him kicking and moving his little arms and his little face pops up and it looks like it's holding his breath.
And he's, you know, of it took him a little while to take that first breath and they've taken a minute or so. Um, for him to take his first breath and have his little cry. And then, um, and then he did many things dried up and started to nurse shortly after his birth was really cool. Um, in that we, we took the time to just stay in the water for a long time and.
And we let him float and there's some really cool photos too, of him floating. And he just kind of like unfolded his little body and hanging out in the water floating. And that was really sweet. It was a really sweet birth. And my 17 year old Ellie is the one who checked the phenomenal photos. Wow. So cool.
It was so cool. And then, and she did a great job and she did a great job and she was at. She was at Luna's birth and she was at Kirin's birth and she's just like all about it. She's not, she's not afraid of a birth at all, which is great. I'm glad you got to have this experience of staying home birth and, um, and what that can be like.
And she can make the choice for herself. You know, she's an adult and ready to have babies, but at least she's had good exposure. So, um, yeah, I've had just awesome. Wow then pretty cool. And we're done. Wow. I'm 40. And so that's it. Five home births over the course of 20 years from when you know your first birth or one of them, you have it VHS tape to now a go pro and a video that thousands of people have seen, like what a.
What a journey, total journey, total journey. And it was, you know, back in 1996, there were not very many people having home births. No. Um, I would imagine not. And I think, you know, I think it's a little more talked about now and maybe a little, I don't want to call it mainstream, cause it is certainly not mainstream, but there are more people who are starting to question whether or not the hospital is the right place for them.
And, and I think that's awesome. You know, we have more options in terms of birth centers and, uh, and know even midwives practicing in hospitals, uh, a lot more options than we did in 1996 when I had my first baby. But, but I think it's still, you know, home birth is still kind of seen as this extreme thing.
You know, people tell me all the time, Oh, you're so brave to have a home birth. And I think, you know, for me, The hospital was more scary because I, I, I know that so often the train that you can jump on when you go into, you know, especially as having done work as a doula, that, that a lot of things, you know, women are made to feel like they shouldn't feel pain in childbirth.
And so there's this constant offering of, do you want something or we're just an expectation that. You're going to get an epidural at some point. And so, you know, when do you want your epidural and how long do you want to wait? You know, and it just, not that, not that that's, but there are so many complications that can happen when you start that down that road, you know, down the let's, let's induce a little with Pototan and let's introduce this and introduce, you know, just, it messes with the natural progression of labor, which can then cause.
Some, some pretty big complications and in my opinion, and in what I've seen. And, and I just, I love, I love talking to women who have done it naturally whether at home or whether in a hospital, because of the feeling of accomplishment. I mean, it's, it's really indescribable how you go from questioning.
Your strengths and what you can do to be so solid in like, wow, I did this, I can do anything. I first freaking human. Naturally. I felt this level of pain that I didn't know existed, and I not only survived, but I rocked it and I got this amazing little human and. You know, you just, you come out of it with such a sense of self and empowerment that it kind of makes me sad when women don't get that from their birth.
You know, when they, when they feel gypped or they feel like they were out of their own body, it kind of breaks my heart a little bit because it, I think it really is such a great way to come into yourself as a woman and be like, I have got this. I am so strong. Nothing can shake that now. And I think, you know, I think especially in a culture where, you know, women are often objectified and were, were considered to be weaker in some ways.
And man, you have a baby naturally and you're like, damn, I have not weak. I am not weak. I am so flippant strong and so much stronger than I knew. And. Damn, you try doing that hubby. You try feeling that and then look, last year you can do it. You know, it just it's. It's so empowering that I really want that for women.
And I hope I hope go ahead. Oh, I was just gonna say it's, it's something that has come up in a lot of our interviews, the, the moment of transformation that moms experience. When they give birth and then for the partner, you know, for the husband or partner, if they have the ability to be there and witness their, you know, their partner giving birth, like there's a transformation that happens with us as well.
And that's absolutely. Absolutely. And, and you know what I do, what I love about home birth too, is that the dads are able to be so involved to, you know, to whatever degree they want. And. And, you know, I, I just, I remember during my first three births, my, my ex husband was always behind me just supporting and, and, you know, rubbing my neck and my hair.
And, and sorry, I have pictures of him sobbing after his babies were born. And like first him, you know, that experience was so powerful for him too. That being able to, to be, you know, connected to me physically, And, you know, and, and feel it in a way through my body, you know, and, and be able to kind of attach to the moment through my body.
I think it's so powerful for the dad too. And then, and then my husband, Joe, now, you know, him being able to, to catch the babies and to know like that I want to do that. I want to catch the baby. I want to be the first one of the first people touching my baby. And, and that, that those moments for him were.
Transformational Tran. And she said, he said, I will never, I get the opportunity to do this again in my life. I'm making it count, you know? Yeah. He, so I, I think you're, you're so right, Matthew that, but it transforms the dads too. And, and really allowing a dad to be. Involved to the level was with what she's comfortable.
You know, some dads, some guys are like, which is great, you know, but if you really want to be involved, you know, I think that you should be allowed to be. And I think oftentimes, you know, if a woman's stuck in a hospital bed or has IVs hooked up to her or whatever, you know, you just can't really physically be involved to the, to the extent that you might want to be as the dad.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't have any experience with. Birth in a hospital, but I can just imagine with the doctors and the nurses and everyone else who's, who has the experience and then the authority that, you know, a father or a partner has a much harder time being a part of the experience. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And that connection as a couple, making that connection and having those moments, you know, of, of. Sweetness and eye contact between contractions and hugs and kisses. And it, it really solidifies your bond as well. A couple, I think it's, I think it's so beautiful that we, that we, yeah, I love that we're getting to share our home book stories for people to hear, uh, because I, I don't think it's talked about, you know, I think that, you know, like my husband, he just assumed.
Aren't babies just born in the hospital and don't, they just cut them out most of the time. And, you know, aren't the Syrians kind of a normal and, and so, you know, for him to get to, to hear my stories, even before we got pregnant with Luna and Kira, and then I think it's really important for people to know that birth can be, it can be different.
It doesn't have to be in a hospital st. You know, I'm glad we have doctors in hospitals for emergency situations because they're. There are times when you need to transfer. And I've been to those Burks. I've been to those home booths where something goes wrong and they need to transfer. And thankfully we have that, but I, I would love to see us get back to healthy, low risk pregnancies being attended by midwives, primarily, you know, whether it's in a birth center or home setting.
I just think that the care model is so much more. Woman centered and family centered, but I would love to see us as a, as a country, get to a place where that's considered normal. I think that would be awesome. I don't know if we ever will, but you know, you guys are helping out working on it, working on it over here.
Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much, Melissa, for sure, for being a part of this with us and by sharing your stories, I mean, Shoot. I'm going to be calling you first. I mean, five babies like you have, you have, um, not just in birth, but I'm sure so much more knowledge that we didn't even skim the surface of. So for you to take that time and share, you know, your treasures and your gifts with us and with our listeners, we are very grateful.
Oh, you're so welcome. I'm I feel honored to be able to, to share and. To help normalize something that is normal, that our bodies are made to do. It's it's a, it's an honor to get to share, share my stories of my, my babies. Give our love to all of those babies, big and small. Cause they're always your babies, even if they're 21, still your baby.
So it's true. It's true. You just get to you just get to have a beer with them right on. Right on. Yeah, Melissa, you, your rock and your, you know, your birth stories are powerful and inspiring. And, you know, I loved that. You've had five births and they were all different, right? Like there were, you know, there were similarities there, there were things that were kind of common throughout, but, um, it's just a beautiful thing that, that birth is always unique and always different.
And you know, you, you get to experience, experience yourself new each time and. No, we're just very grateful. Yeah. We're grateful. Like Sarah said that you'd come on this show and share your stories. And I know our listeners have, have, um, really picked up a lot. And just from, from your words and your experience, and once again, we want to say, thank you.
Thank you. Oh yeah. Thank you guys. .