5 Identical Twins Birth Story, Preeclampsia, Induction, C-section, & A NICU After Esophogeal Fistula: Meet Shawn, Creator of The Art of Letter Writing

On this installment of Birth Story Podcast Heidi interviews her longtime friend, the creator of the popular Instagram page The Art of Letter Writing, and one of the most beloved professors at Queen’s University in Charlotte, NC, Shawn, about her surprise identical twin pregnancy and the differences between maternal healthcare in the United States versus Costa Rica, where she elected to have her first vaginal ultrasound after discovering she was pregnant. Shawn's favorite baby product was the Little Lamb cradle swing.

Looking for a Virtual Doula to create a custom birthing experience and guide you through your journey to parenthood in the United States? Contact Heidi at www.mydoulaheidi.com

For additional free birth education resources and to purchase Heidi’s book, Birth Story: Pregnancy Guidebook + Journal, visit www.birthstory.com.

Want to share your thoughts on the episode? Leave a review and send a message directly to Heidi on Instagram.

TRANSCRIPTION

What does a contraction feel like? How do I know if I'm in labor and what does the day of labor look like? Wait, is this normal? Hey, I'm Heidi Campbell, a certified birth doula host of this podcast, birth story and owner of my doula, Heidi. I have supported hundreds of women through their labor and deliveries.

And I believe that every one of them and you deserves a microphone and a stage. So here we are listen each week to get answers to these tough questions and more birth story, where we talk about pregnancy labor deliveries, where we tell our stories, share our feelings. And of course chat about our favorite baby products.

And because I'm passionate about birth outcomes, you will hear from some of the top experts in labor and delivery, whether you are pregnant, trying desperately to get pregnant, I hope you will stick around and be part of this tribe. Episode five. Woo. So today could not be more exciting for me because I get to share with you the journey of one of my very best friends, Shawn and her identical twin, um, pregnancy and birth.

And I was also her doulas. So this is such a cool story. And I hope that you learn so much, especially if you are carrying multiples today.

Hey everybody. I'm in the podcast studio with Sean today. She is going to be the very first interview of 2019 to talk about a multiples birth. So again, I'm Heidi Campbell with the birth story podcast. Welcome Sean. Hi. Yeah, thanks for having me. So, okay. Let's go back to tell me a little bit about like how old are your twins and a little bit about like who you are and I'm like, why we want to listen to this story?

Sure. Um, So I am a college professor here in Charlotte. I teach at Queens university, Charlotte, my twins are now six. They just celebrated their sixth birthday this past December. Um, and they are mine only when you have twins out the gate. Half of, I feel like half of the parents between stop once they, once they have the twins first.

Um, and so it's been a wild ride. They are identical. Twin boys. And, um, every bit of boy DNAs and those kids, they are wild and energetic don't ever stop. So I am a tired twin mom, but I am a very happy, um, blessed, uh, twin mom, too. So, yeah. Awesome. Um, okay. And then your husband, I'm just going to interject though.

And, um, what does Bo do for a living Bo works in the restaurant industry with Noble's food group? He is, um, basically, uh, I can't remember see, Oh, what'd I say? Yeah, chief operating officer he's operating, like, he doesn't really. W we don't like mentioning it that much, but he's been in the restaurant industry for our entire life Bo and I dated for eight years and we have been married.

We're celebrating our 10th year. Uh, no 11th year. This coming April. Hmm. So we've known each other for a really, really long time. And you're pretty young. So most of your life, you guys have known each other for 21st birthdays. So let's go back to like early marriage. So you said that you've been married for almost 11 years, but the boys are only six.

Yeah. So did you have like a long journey to get pregnant? Or what did that look like? You guys, we did not have a long journey to get pregnant. Um, we, um, when, when I first. I was married to Bo I had started teaching in the public school system and, um, I was part of, um, a group called lateral entry. So I, um, never had like really secure fitting in that necessarily.

And, um, Pete Gorman yeah. Was, um, the, the superintendent at the time. And there was a huge riff of, um, layoffs. And I was part of that. So right when we were talking about maybe starting a family was when financially things kinda caved out from underneath us. Um, so we waited. Um, to have children to start our family, but it actually was a really nice incubation period, even though we dated for a long time, it, we were married for about five years and not let us sort of settle into the patterns of marriage and figure out how communication in marriage is like wildly different.

Um, and I think it helped us grow up a little bit so that having twins, it wasn't like this huge shell shock. I can't imagine having them, um, younger. When I was trying to start my career, I th I'm grateful that my career was a little settled. Um, In some ways. Um, when I had it, we were not trying, we were practicing and it was one big thing.

Okay. So tell me the difference between trying and practicing for everything you have to define this far. Right? So we would not, you know, I guess people would say we were trying, because we weren't using any sort of birth control method other than the calendar method. Um, And I, I think ultimately Bo kind of was like, you know what, let's do this, who cares?

Let's try. Um, and so the pullout method we were using the calendar and the pullout method and both flipped the script on me one night and did not, you know, pull out. So I made a joke. I was like, you know, In a few weeks, this could become something and he laughed and he was like, well, you know, it's, it's about time.

He made this sort of joke. Um, and I remember very vividly. I was at the time I had just been laid off from, um, working at the high school and I was part time everything. So I was adjuncting at Queens. I was. Pet city. I was all of these things and I was getting ready to take your group of students to Costa Rica for over a month.

And I, I wasn't, I didn't feel great, but I wasn't sick. And I, because I'm a dual citizen, I was born in Costa Rica. I knew that I could go and get checked out in Costa Rica. So I wanted to rule out a few things in case what I was having with something chronic, I was concerned. I was really didn't have health insurance right.

At the time I did not have health checks. That's right. So I was feeling really lethargic. It was like mandatory naps in the afternoon, which is not me. I'm a very energetic type of go person. I'd been dog sitting and I just didn't have any energy. So I was like, well, I'll take a pregnancy test to rule it out.

I'm also not a good tracker of my period. Like I'm the worst at that? So I was like, well, I think I'm supposed to be on my period, but I don't know. It's all, you know, I was like, I'll just roll this out. I'm leaving Costa Rican two days. Um, and so I, you know, I did the thing at peed on the stick at this guy's house that I was dog sitting for.

And I remember. I seeing the second line come up faintly and calling my sister and was like, you can't really see it. She's like, you're saying that you see a second line and go, well, not really. She's like, yeah, if you were saying that there's any sort of second line line, you're pregnant. And she went into full freak out mode.

So I hang up with her and then I called our good friend, Tara, and I was like, Tara, I'm going to send you a picture of this. Pretty sure. I don't see a second line and Tara more straightforward and calm and never gets excited. She's like, you're pregnant. David. And I was like, Oh, okay. It's so no insurance.

And like, I remember calling you, you doula. Heidi was like Haiti, I'm pregnant and I'm going to be gone for a month. And can you, I don't know what I need to be doing. Can you do that? Cause I'm getting on a plane with students, um, in two days. And I was like, Hey babe, we're pregnant. I'll see you in a month.

And I literally got on the plane and I was sick as a dog for that first trimester. And it was really hard. To, um, keep that secret from the students. I literally was, um, throwing up every meal and I lost 10 pounds in the first trimester and I was, wow. Yeah, it was. It was bad. That is a lot. So for all of our listeners out there, I also called our friend Tara and had that similar conversation of like, I think that there is a second line when I was pregnant with my first.

And so for anyone listening out there, if there, if you see a second line, you are pregnant. It doesn't matter how fate it is. I think part of it is any second, right? Yeah. Part of it is like, you don't believe it. Right. So it's this notion of like, I'm not seeing what I'm seeing clearly, right? Yeah. Yeah. Um, I took, so that I was going to see how many tests did you take?

So that's the first one I did in the afternoon. And my sister who was insistent was like, take another one in the morning. Please tell me about a two bag. I was like, yeah. I mean, sure. So I took one in the morning and within. Uh, I want to say like a minute and a half, that second line showed up and it was bright pink.

And I was like, we are pregnant clearly at the time. I didn't know it, but it was those twin hormones running through me. Um, so it was like, Oh yeah, you're, you're like, Doubly pregnant. Yeah. So let's talk about you're in Costa Rica. You're with the students, you're sick, you've lost 10 pounds, but because you're from Costa Rica, I know a little bit of the story.

You, a lot of the story. So I don't want you to share with everybody that's listening. Like what it looks like to take your Costa Rican family to the doctor. So, um, so I get. Because I'm a Costa Rican citizen. And because is Costa Rica has amazing health care. I can, it was free healthcare for me, but the privatized healthcare is really cheap there too.

So I went and I had my blood work drawn and, um, my aunt and my cousin, as in booked an appointment with a gynecologist, um, and we went and so in Costa Rica, yeah. It's not like in America where you're waiting in a waiting room, and then you go into this, um, exam room doctor comes in. This is like, I never saw a nurse.

I went straight into the doctor's office and it's like set up like a regular office. He's got his desk, he's got his computer. He took a few minutes to get to know me. And then he said, all right, well, we'll go on the other side of this partition. And so you just imagine like a half wall and there was an exam.

Um, Table right there. And so my aunt and my cousin were on the other side of the partition, but clearly you can hear everything right. And bless this man. He spoke in English, I think to afford me a little bit of privacy because he knew that those weren't my immediate, my dad was not going to show up to this thing because clearly modest man, that he is, that was too close to, you know, my naked vagina or something.

And then I, mom is a Gore phobics. So this was not necessarily an ideal situation. My husband Beau is, you know, state side and I'm getting, um, this checkup to kind of confirm the pregnancy and I'm like, okay, Think I'm five weeks pregnant, you know, whatever. So I'm on the table. He's doing, um, uh, the vaginal, what's it called?

Ultrasound ultrasound. Yes. And he's like, yup. He, this baby is measuring beautifully at five weeks. You're correct. Look, he showing me this gorgeous little healthy peanut of a baby on the ultrasound and everything is sort of, he's speaking in Spanish and English, English, all this stuff. And then he pauses and he goes, ups.

Ups. And the beautiful thing about this is he recorded the ultrasound so that I could show both later so that we could share that memory together. Um, and he. He's like it's twins. It was like, what? Say what? And he goes, so it's the one right inside a mini. I don't know what he did. He moved it and he's like, see that I go, yeah, he goes, that's BBA.

I was like, okay. And then he moves the want to go see that. I was like, she's that's baby V. And I was like, I don't. I mean, I believe you, I'm not trying to insult you, but I don't believe this. He had to keep doing it. And so not comfortable also. Yeah, it was, you know, I was right at 10 weeks. So this is not normally when you would have five weeks, but really you Ted.

I, I arrived. I was five weeks pregnant. I think I'm, I'm, it's been a month since I've been in country. I think I'm 10 weeks pregnant. That is correct. So this is not a normal time when you would have this type of exam. Meanwhile, my aunt. And my, um, cousin who are like clutching hands and like, you hear them squeal and then they go, can we come over?

I was like a sure, because, and everything's so laughable and surreal anyway. So they come around to the other side and in Spanish they're like, we're very Catholic. So they're. Praising God and thinking the heavens and, you know, Ivan, Maria and all of this stuff. And I'm like laughing slash crying, because it's just so surreal.

We weren't trying for this pregnancy. It was not exactly the best of times to have it, but it felt really, um, serendipitous, right? Like my first. Checkup was in a country where I can afford to do it. I don't know what I would have done if I was still stateside without, without any insurance. And I mean, I would have figured it out, but yeah, in this ultrasound, one of the questions I have is that there's all different types of twins, even identical.

Yeah. So tell me about like the SAC, the SACS, the placentas. They were mano di. Okay. So because of that unique timeframe, he was able to tell very clearly that they were identical. So explain to everyone what mano, Diana died, two babies they're sharing. So they shared one placenta and they were in their own sacks.

You know, they had their own amniotic SACS, um, or when your water breaks. So they were in their own little sacks. And so that type of pregnancy, identical twins is a three and a thousand. Chance of having identical twins and it's not hereditary. That's one of the questions I get all the time. Oh, do twins run in your family?

Fraternal twins. Do but identical twins. Have nothing to do with genes. It's just with the eggs, the eggs splitting, and that's like a Russian roulette that bow played with. Nice. And then your twins, um, have red hair. So I think, I remember you telling us one time that like the chances of having identical twins that had like red hair and green eyes was like one new eyes and bloods one 10,000 or something crazy.

I. Red hair and blue eyes is the rarest hair, eye color combination in the world. Red heads make up less than 2% of the population. So on Facebook I had made this joke, like I have red heads, there are less than 2% of the population they're identical, which is a, you know, a three in a thousand chance to have them.

I said, I wonder what the odds are. And of course, because I teach at a university, one of my colleagues was like, not to geek out on you, but it's actually like at 0.0 something, something chance to actually have. Identical twins who are red heads, particularly with blue eyes like that. Did you buy lottery tickets to celebrate?

They were the lottery.  you tell your husband that you were having twins cause he wasn't with you at this appointment. Right? So he actually had come down to Costa Rica at the end of the trip. The students flew back. He came down for a week and I still had two, two days at the end of my trip that I wanted to spend with family.

Again, I'd booked these tickets long before we knew we were pregnant. So he comes down, I'm throwing up every day. The pregnancy becomes real to him. Like he sees how. Uh, like in bad shape, I am, and I have food aversions and I'm like, you can't eat that around me. And you know, that's not who I am. I eat everything.

And so it became really real to him, but then he flies back. He knows that I have this appointment the next day. So I call them again. We're in the car with my aunt, with my cousin who am, who I love very dearly, but not who I want to have this conversation in the presence of, so call bell, he's waiting. He knows what time it is.

He's like, Hey, how'd it go? I was like, it. It's good. Where, where are you? He's like, I'm at work. I was like, Oh, like in your office worker, like you walk in the floor because he works in a restaurant. Right. And he's like, Oh, I'm done at the bar. I was like, okay, can you sit down? And he's like, is everything okay with the baby?

It's like, yeah. Yeah, everything is fine. There's just two of them. It's totally fine. And it was dead silent. And I remember taking the phone and like looking like, did the, did we lose the international call? I'm driving, you know, in the city of San Jose. And, uh, as I bow and he was like, yeah, Yeah, I'm here. I was like, okay.

He's like, I'm excited. He's like, this is a lot to take in. I was like, yeah. Okay. Right. I'll talk to you. So you're gonna pick me up tomorrow. He's like, yeah. And that was it. Like we, I think we were both so spooked to that. We just didn't talk about it by the time I landed. He had researched in his cute sort of way of loving.

He had researched everything. There was to research about a twin pregnancy and then grill me. He's like, yo, we gotta figure out how you're going to eat more because you have to have 600 calories more for a twin pregnancy than your regular pregnancies. Like, I don't think you're drinking enough water. I didn't see you drink that much water in Costa Rica.

You need to be having double the amount of wa like it was all facts. It's he was the one who. Research the fact that twins are identical, twins are not hereditary. So he became this like little Rolodex of information. He was your week by week guide to pregnancy. He was like, Oh, the baby's going to be the size of this.

Baby's right. We were still, so yeah. I love it. Yeah. Okay. So your pregnancy, tell me about it. Was, were you relatively healthy? Like how did everything go? It was so the first trimester I was sick. That's not surprising given twins. I think most twin moms will tell you that. Or report that they had a really sort of nauseous first trimester.

There's two of them. Did you take medicine? I did not. Nope. No. Um, I, I had food aversions. I, they doubled down on fruit and avocado. That's what tasted good to me. Um, So I didn't take medicine. I just kind of worked my way through it. By the end of the trimester, I started to feel better. I still have waves of nausea, but I wasn't actively throwing up after that.

It was sort of a textbook pregnancy, um, because they were identical twins. And because they were mono di twins. We were monitored a lot. And since they're my only babies, I don't know. I don't know any other way. Like my friends would be like, Oh, I finally get a sonogram. I'm like, what are you talking about?

Because every other week I was having sonograms pictures taken of the babies. So it was highly monitored. There there's a risk of twin to twin transfusion with identical twins that they really want to close. We look for, there was a little bit of a scare towards third trimester because I was. They tell you to watch out for rapid weight gain, because that is a sign of twin to twin transfusion and that happened.

And so one of the ways to avoid that, if it's too soon, they go ahead and give the babies steroids. And they just inject that if it's around 37, 36 weeks ago, they, they try to push to deliver. I, this was before that, I think it was right around 33 weeks. So, um, that was a big scare. Um, and there's really no way of finding out.

And they had offered at that point to drain some of my fluid. And I asked, like, what benefit does that have for the babies? They said, no, none. It's just to make you more comfortable. And I was sort of a very pro leased medical interventions possible. So I turned that down. Which meant I was huge. Like, I have pictures of me next to Santa.

I delivered in December where my belly is like twice the size of dress up. Santa's I'd walk into a grocery store and people were like, there's triplets in there. She's going to have her baby right here. Um, but so they did the steroids. And that was it. They sent me home. Um, and then at 37 weeks I went in, um, at that point I was going in every week for checkups.

My blood pressure was a little high and, um, there were signs of preeclampsia in my urine sample. At that point. My doctor was like, you know what, let's go ahead and have these babies. Let's um, what's the word I'm looking for? Induce. Yeah. Thank you. So I have not had any Brexton Hicks. I had not had any false LIBOR.

I had no inkling of what a contraction felt like. So at that point, I kind of knew that, that the birth plan that Bo and I envisioned was gonna probably be up. So I know that what that was cause I was your doula, but why don't you tell everybody like what you were planning for your twin birth? So, um, I was really enthralled with the idea of a water birth.

I loved the notion of peace and calm that that would bring to both me and Bo Bo is a little gun shy in hospitals. He has fainted before at the sign of a needle. I wanted a space that was going to provide as much peace as possible for everybody involved. And I'm also just more. Along the like granola hippie side, if you will prefer less medical interventions possible.

I'm not, I'm a believer in Western medicine. Um, but I think there can be a balance. Um, and so I had wanted waterbirth or at at least, uh, you know, Be able to move around, be able to squat, all those things. I was prepped pretty early that that may not happen 50%, half of all twin bursts end up in C-sections.

That's just the reality. Um, full term for twins is considered 37 weeks. Um, and so I knew I had to really advocate for myself, but the preeclampsia kind of took my bargaining chip off the table because at that point, Preeclampsia the only way to get rid of it for the mom, if I'm correct, is delivery is delivery.

Right? So at that point it was like, and for anyone that's listening here to, like, I think it's really important. I think preeclampsia gets thrown around and people aren't really sure what the definition of that is. They know that it's linked to high blood pressure, but high blood pressure is just actually one symptom.

So eat clamps yet actually means seizures or convulsions. So preeclampsia. Yeah, it means. Pre seizures or convulsions. It's one of the leading killers of women, maternal health in the world, just, and we don't, I don't think that people know enough about it. So that's why I just wanted to interject. One of the symptoms is high blood pressure.

One of the symptoms is high uric acid. One of the symptoms, protein or creatine in your urine. They look at the ratio of the uric acid to the creatinine. And so, um, they also look at things like blurry, vision and headaches. There's a multitude of symptoms that could give you the diagnosis of preeclampsia.

Um, but I think it's important to not dismiss the seriousness of it because I don't think a lot of people have realized that eclampsia means. Seizures and convulsions, so that we're trying to not have that happen, you know? And the only cure as you mentioned is delivery. I had blurry vision the week before and I just, it, it was, it came in last.

It was like in my peripheral vision. So I didn't know that that was related. Right. So when we went in for 37 weeks and they said that it was sort of like, okay, well, We're going to have to deliver these guys. And I knew at that point that my body wasn't physically ready to have them. I had no signs. There was nothing kind of lost your mucus plants, my mucus plug.

And I was still, you know, Pretty mobile for how huge waddling. I will tell listeners that, um, you were still quite high too. So the babies hadn't like drop, you know, you hadn't experienced that, you know, big drop because there was also a lot that fluid was. Yes, I will. I will. We'll we're going to have a story about the fluid and just, uh, it just here coming up in a minute.

Now we're going to take a short break to just share a few things with you and we'll be right back with it. Our guest, I'm so excited to tell you about my first book that I wrote that is launching this summer. It's a 42 week guide to your pregnancy. It's a collection of birth stories. It has a ton of doula advice from all of the questions that my clients have asked me over the last 14 years.

It has hysterical partner tips that you will want to read to your partner. And it has journaling prompts because nobody has time to write a 20 pages in their journal about their pregnancy. So I've taken the Liberty to give you some prompts of things that I think you might want to remember back on after the baby's born.

So again, you can go to story.com and preorder a copy today, and it would mean the world to me. Um, so this was like the afternoon of what day was this? December? The boys were born on the 12th. So it was two full three full days before that they were born late 12, 18 on the 12th, so, okay. Um, a few days before and, um, at that point, I kind of knew and resigned myself, um, that things would not go as Bo and I had planned.

I think I had had that in the back of my head. Not that this was what was going to happen. I certainly didn't have a self fulfilling prophecy about it, but I, I want it to be open to possibility and I wanted to be open to they'll get here, how they get here and it's going to be okay. Um, if I'm part of the statistic or if I beat it or whatever it might be.

Right. Um, so they started with the Pitocin. So wait, let's back up. So you're at that appointment. Did they send you home to rest or did you, no, they sent me to the hospital. They said, do you have a backpack? And we said, yeah, it's, you know, we've, we've had it in the car for a few days. They're like, well, go ahead.

Had an, I was at the OB GYN that was connected to the hospital. So they're like, yeah, just go, go on up. And so we went, so for everyone. If you go to the doctor's office and they don't send you home, they send you right to the hospital. There's a little bit more of a sense of urgency than even you understand, because there are many inductions where they say come back tomorrow.

Right. But when they say go straight to the hub at all, There are some things that are making them very uncomfortable. I think the markers for preeclampsia were very clear, right. Very clear. And they wanted to alleviate and they wanted to alleviate that. And so, um, which I appreciate, right. I appreciate the attentiveness to that.

So we went, they started putting Pitocin, um, I went back through the notes that, so Heidi was my doula, which is an amazing thing to have a doula. Um, even if you don't have the birth story that you want, or if you, your goal is to go natural and you don't go natural, having a doula in the room is amazing.

It's an advocate, it's a voice, um, that helps you the multitude of ways that you helped, or it was amazing. Um, So we called Heidi. We're like, Hey, I mean, you show up when you want, I don't think anything's happening, but you know, they're going to induce, um, uh, serve adult that evening. Um, I was told I was in labor.

I felt. Nothing like nothing. At one point I was like, yeah, I'm starting to get some, some pain in my lower back. I'd rate it like a two on a scale of one to 10. And I remember people like in the room laughing, they're like your contractions are two minutes apart. How do you not feel that? And I was like, I don't, I don't know.

I don't, there's a whole lot of fluid. Hear it? No. And then we'll just back up really quick on Cervidil. So Cervidil is, um, an induction. Um, medicine that they use that will soften soften and then the cervix. Yeah, so many times with a first time, mom, our cervix has not faced or thinned and it hasn't dilated.

Um, and before we start like all this Potosi and it is really good to start with, um, trying to open and soften the cervix. Now, if you had an opportunity to go home, Your doula would have said have tons of sex because there are so many prostoglandins and semen that soften the cervix. And I had been using that hip that evening Primrose, the evening Primrose.

So I had, I had, I just, I think had. Started it the day before, so clearly. Um, and again, I was really pro natural, um, but under understood that that may not be the case. Um  and then maybe a couple hours later started the party. Yes. Started at the lowest level, kept increasing. It actually went. Like to the top that they nurses are allowed to go without a doctor coming in and okaying it.

I only ever got to 70% defaced and I only ever opened up three centimeters. Okay. So clearly my inclination, my instinct that my body wasn't ready. I think you remember how many hours you were induced for? Like had to been over 24, right. When you guys went into centimeters. Yep. Yeah, it was over 24. Yeah.

And I know people were saying, you're look the monitor, you're having a contraction. And they were four minutes apart and they were two minutes apart and I was like, Yeah. So do you remember ever really feeling that tightening or that squeezing? Like I remember being there with you and, and not really ever going into active labor?

I don't think I ever had active labor. Yeah. I never had an urgency to do anything with my body. Right. I mean, I had a desire to move around. I had a desire to not be. And the thing I'll tell you, so, you know, there's two babies, there's two monitors. There was a mobile monitor unit that we had requested. But it wasn't there that day.

Right? I have one cause like how many twin bursts or multiple bursts do you have? And so each nurse had a different approach about it. And I, the first nurse was great. She let me move. And then she would just ask, you know, in intervals, I think of half an hour and then maybe 20 minutes and then 15 to check the heart rates.

And they were fine in the evening that nurse. Was so rigid. I was on my back sitting in that bed and I, the only time she let me take the monitors offer to go pee. And so I'd fake having to pee just so that I could get up and I would do it. You never got to take a shower or get into the bath shower, or I didn't get to chill out in the bath.

I did. I was allowed to shower again. Right. There's this rigidity that I, that's not my personality. That's not how I wanted to deliver the boys. Um, but I also. And I remember, I think Heidi, you helped sort of advocate for that. She just, this woman wasn't budging. And I think, um, Twin bursts are complications to begin with.

I was considered a high risk pregnancy from the get go. The fact that they were identical twins increase that the fact that I was carrying around eight extra liters of fluid that they thought was related to twin to twin transfusion, then ended up being about something else, which I think we'll get to all of those things.

I think created a picture for them that made almost everybody pretty nervous. Right. Um, and I just want to interject, you did not hear her incorrectly. She did say eight extra liters of fluid. Okay. We are going to get to that stuff. Like how many steps? We said it was four of like those two liters of lore.

If you go to a picnic. Yeah. Four of those. And then 10 pounds of baby. Yeah. So like a day leader. Really? The induction is what it's it's I don't like the word fail, but you're calling, I think it's stalling, right? Because at this point, yeah. I think we doubled the amount of Pitocin. And so the doctor comes in and he's like, you know, you're still not really a faced.

And I had some visitors at that point who came and you were still with us. And it was like, I'm not willing to concede anymore on the, on the amount of medicine that you're pumping into my body, because I knew I had enough self-awareness body awareness that this wasn't going anywhere. So I was like, I want the Pitocin stopped.

If we stopped the Pitocin, whatever fo labor we're having right now is going to stop. I knew that clearly. Yeah. So, and this is so important for people to hear. If your body is not ready for labor, there is no amount of Pitocin that they can give you. That's gonna make you go and do labor. So your body's ready.

Absolutely things will happen things. So it's a really good that you had that, you know, kind of awareness and that you were willing to like listen to the medical community too. Yeah. So I think I asked him, I said, is the preeclampsia still a concern? Because now we're on day two and a half and I'm.

There's still high blood pressures to get, like, I don't want to be pumped full of these drugs. Is, is the preeclampsia still a concern? He's like, yeah. I said, okay. So I remember we asked everybody to leave, but when I talked about it, I was concerned because Bo. It really does have a phobia and a fear and anxiety around operations needles, all of that stuff.

And I knew that we were going to be leaving an environment that was sort of homey, right. That we had the diffuser going. We had like our own pillows was pseudo comfortable to this very cold clinical environment. And so I said, can you do this? Like, do you want to do this? Do we want to have these babies now?

I just. Don't this isn't going to happen naturally right now. And if the preeclampsia is still a concern, they're not going to let me go home. Like this is it. And so we decided together that we would just elect to have a C-section. I don't know that I would ever settle know that it was, it was indicated.

It was indicated. And whether me, you made control of that decision earlier, but in two hours, I look at it that way. I'm pretty sure they may have come in and said, yeah. And I kind of wanted it on my own terms. I didn't want to be in an emergent situation where they might've decided to put me out. Like I, I needed to, I wanted, if we were going to go that route, I wanted it to be on our terms.

Yeah. So we said, let's just have these babies. And, um, the doctor said, I think you're making the right call, you know? Um, and I think later he said my cervix was pretty far back and the babies were behind that. And so it would have made complications. I forgot this until I read the notes last night. Um, and I think it's probably because they never said it to me when wouldn't pulled eat it.

They had another medication intervention that we had while we were laboring is that they stripped my membranes with Ethan. Ethan was BBA. Um, And while that felt great, like it relieved a little bit of pressure, still nothing. Right. So, so we went, yeah. And I had the epidural, um, in the operating room, Heidi, you got to be a part of it, which doesn't normally happen.

So I'd love to hear like your take on it. But anyway, so yeah. Um, so they took you back to the opportunity back to the operating room and then place the epidural. Place that paternal. Do you remember that process? Yeah, that was the only pain I felt day. Like the whole thing. I was like, Oh, I feel that. And she's like, try not to move.

I was like, I'm so sorry. That's painful. Well, um, and that was it like that literally I think is the only pain I felt leading up. To my birth, but your body responded well to the anesthesia, like yeah. You felt, yeah, I felt numb, but I still hadn't like upper body awareness. I remember feeling nauseous. Um, I don't remember feeling nauseous.

I felt. I think there was this relative calm for me. Um, I, people were coming into the room. There were a lot of people. So which when bursts, each baby gets assigned its own team. So small room, there were at least a dozen people, I think, in that land. Uh, if I remember correctly. Yeah. And Bo and I were, um, You know, trying to stay kind of out of their way up at your head, but you did have an overwhelming sense of peace and calmness.

Thank you to you. Um, so Bo you know, they sat in again, but I was really nervous, so they sat him right close to me. And so we, we just were watching each other the whole time. Um, And when they pulled Ethan out, this is what I didn't, I don't remember. And I don't think anybody told me that the umbilical cord was wrapped twice around Ethan's neck.

Yeah. Um, I remember, yes, because I went where I probably am not supposed to go, but I went to the other side of the curtain because yeah. Um, so for, uh, for audience members listening, this was the very first time that I had the opportunity to be in the operating room. Um, not all doulas get that privilege.

So I had never seen a C-section and I was really curious. So I just remember being like, by Shawn, like both got you. And I was on the other side of it, that curtain I'm watching that whole process go down. And so, um, it was really. Amazing to see the inside of your uterus and your organs. It felt like its own type of birth that you said they created a canal.

They actually did. They have a ring. Um, and I, I'm not sure what this medical contraption is called, but it's a, a ring. Maybe we'll put it in the show notes, but it's a ring that kind of opened up, um, your skin and uterus and it looked like. You know, cause I've seen many vaginal births. It really did look like a birth, a normal birth opening.

It was really miraculous. Right, right. So, so yeah, so they, Ethan was baby a 1218 within the stereotype chord rock minute, Zach was born. They, they broke his water and then. Yeah. Delivered him in the same minute. So let's talk about that one. Freaking, I don't exactly remember if they broke. Was it just one sack that was.

They had stripped his membranes in the delivery room. Right. So, okay. So, okay. So remember, we had this concern that there was twin to twin transfusion. I was carrying a lot of liquid on just one side, a lot of fluid on just one side. Well, it turns out, um, that they were eight liters. Yeah. And it was on Zack and was on Zack BBB.

And the reason is, uh, he was born with an esophageal fistula, so his throat never connected to a stomach. So in utero, he never had the ability to. Process, he couldn't do that. So he was sitting at a rapid rate at a very rapid rate and all that amniotic fluid, which is why they thought we, the twin to twin thing was a concern because usually when you gain a lot of weight or there's, they, they think turns out it was that he just didn't have a throat to process it.

So say the term again is soft, but Jeal, so referring to the esophagus or the throat fistula, and it was a birth defect that happened. They say around three weeks. So it was before I even knew that I was pregnant with them. Um, it's not common, but it's a, there's a common fix for it. And so, um, generally the surgery is immediate and it takes six to eight weeks generally for folks for a little bit.

Little kids to recover from it. So I want to get to that story in just a minute, but like, I feel like we left, like our listeners, like on edge a little bit. So let's talk about the fluid. So fluid Sean's laying on the bed. So I'm not really sure you're aware of, I heard everybody go, Whoa, like a collective one go in the room and Bo looks so Bose, like at my head and it's the first time he broke my gaze with me and he looks down and he's like, yeah, Is that all supposed to be there?

Like this over there, standing amniotic fluid, like standing water, standing, amniotic fluid. On the operating floor that there's not this doesn't, there's that container that they put float and it's a PO you're supposed to fill that up. Right. And they actually use that, I think, for the measure to measure it.

Yeah. So it, that it fell bad overflow. All the nurses were like, what? And there was some sort of like nervous laughter in the room. I th you know, so your strap, the mom is strapped down. You don't really see anything. There's that curtain up. Um, I wasn't nervous because the laughter made it sort of a lighthearted moment.

And I knew it, it was, I wasn't surprised it wasn't like what's happening. I was like, Oh, there was a lot of fluid. Yeah. Feel like a relief of pressure. Like as if a balloon had popped or did you feel like a balloon puppy? It was like all of a sudden I felt weightless for just like a million second. And it was like, it was like, I had.

Peed my pants. Like I had never peed my pants before. Like it was like, yeah. And it literally was, I think it made that sound. It was like, and then it hits the tile floor. So it makes us out there and people were just like beside themselves. And so, you know, Beau, myself and Heidi have no idea that this is out of the norm until we hear the nervous like laughter.

And then I think later, right, when you were getting dressed out of your scrubs, you were with the nurses and they said, Well, I mean, I just remember that they were like, we have never, literally never seen this amount of amniotic fluid. And then they STR because it overflowed so much, they estimated it at eight to 10 liters.

And I was like, that can't even be right. I mean, I just remember like counting the liter bottles and then like thinking of your stomach and thinking. Wow. Yeah, it just, I was huge is what we're trying to say is I was huge. I'd literally I'd walk into a store and I was probably around 34, 35 weeks, and people just glazed over with panic.

They thought I was going to have these children in aisle, eight of Harris Teeter. Woo. And I just remember, so like Ethan was born, like Zach was born like immediately, and I think this is really cool with the numbers. Like, so they were born on 12th, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, I'm sorry, 12 to last 10 that'll ever happen.

Um, yeah. And they're twins. So I just remember. Yeah. I just remember thinking like, Whoa, this is like, Spiritual, you know, awakening that's happening. Right. And I remember right away, they put the babies. Um, and I'm taking over a little bit because now you're laying on your back end, stitched up. Right. I don't see any, so they took Bo and I were able to like, see Zach and Ethan and they put them in their little bassinets and like under the lights and right away, they noticed.

That something wasn't right. Was that right? They weren't saying very much. They weren't saying much, but like I remember, and though, and I remember hearing that his sound was very different than Ethan's sound. So like those first few, like cries and breaths and stuff. Um, but then we kind of got, um, You know, whisked away to go back to the room and they were going to take you to recovery for four hours.

And, um, so then I want you to take over and then tell us kind of where your journey or your non curation of motherhood started. So I'll say even though I had this vision of a water birth and all of these things, I think that I was a water birth and well, different, got a lot of breath, right? I, you know, I had all these visions, um, and those didn't come to fruition, but I, I feel that I still had a very serene and calm birth, even though it was in sort of the confines of a medical operating table.

And so I don't, I don't mourn the loss of what could have been a birth or I don't, I don't. It didn't feel like a traumatic experience. Now that might be, um, because of the subsequent stuff that happened with Zach afterwards. Right. And I, and, and no one told me about Ethan until I read it later. So I think that was probably a saving grace.

Right. I never was never worried about Ethan and probably needed to be, but I wasn't. Um, So w we, I recover in the recovery room, which is like this size of a small closet. It was ridiculous. And then, um, I get some skin to skin time with both of them after they had had their bath. Um, and then we get wheeled to our, our room, and I remember, um, They said, we're gonna take a Zack up.

He's still having some trouble getting warm. We're going to take him up to the, um, nursery I think is what they said or the NICU to warm them up and just do some run, some more tests on him, but it was always, it was just presented in sort of a. Standard operating type of situation. Yeah. No need to alarm you no need to alarm you.

Right. This is my first pregnancy. I don't know what to expect. We had kind of already adopted this open attitude of, you know, roll with the punches kind of thing. And I'm also coming off of. Some major drugs. Right? So like, things are not operating clearly for me anyway, Bo is like, at this point, really sleep deprived because he's been up the whole time.

He went with the babies to have their first bath, all the, when they got them cleaned up. So he is finally sleeping, I think for the first time, I mean in over chase. Yeah. Um, and I remember it was like early morning hours, three, four, an O uh, a doctor came in and. I knew it was, I knew it was serious. Um, and so she comes in bows asleep.

We don't wake him up and she's telling me words and I'm struggling to process them. And so she was kind enough to write it on an index card. Esophagi office job. Yeah. And she said, he's going to need surgery. And at this point I'm just so overwhelmed. I've had two babies. I've only got one of them in my, in my hand, I'm able to do skin to skin with Ethan.

Um, I am recovering from major surgery, which by the way, I never really even registered that that was a serious surgery. Like it never came. The preeclampsia concerns I knew were, uh, concerns. The C-section I know is a major surgery. I don't have any recollection of being in pain after the surgery or like what my own needs were at that point.

And I think it, because the truth more primarily Zack, right. Um, so welcome to being a mom, welcome to being a mom. So that was like, Hey, you're a mom and you day one, you're a mom and crisis. Right. And so it was, do you remember how long it was before you were reconnected with Zach? After, like the initial skin to skin time.

Yeah. Like when they took them and to diagnose them and then have to have surgery before, right before surgery. Oh, that's okay. Now we're both going. Yeah. Let me to, um, right before surgery, we wheeled, I got wheeled up. Um, he was connected to all of these tubes. I should say. He's in the NICU. There are tiny preemies, like gorgeous little preemies, and he was born pounds, 12 ounces.

So for a twin baby, he's, he's a big, he's a healthy size. So he looks like this brilliant Butterball compared to all the other CA you know, all the other babies that are in the room. And he is hooked up to all these tubes, but he's not in the incubator. Like I could, he wasn't in a glass container where I couldn't put my hands in, you know, kind thing.

Um, But I was, so they were like, you can pick them up and I didn't cause it so afraid.

Right. He's got a tube that's breathing for him. He's got a tube. That's feeding him or not. I don't even think he was eating yet. Cause he needed surgery. Right. Um, and so those were my first sort of memories of, of Zachary or he sort of, yeah. So, um, Bell really kind of became anchor point. Like, I, it kind of became this division of labor immediately.

I was taking care of Ethan, but it was with Zach. So I didn't see much a bow. We didn't have a lot of time to process together the birth story. It was just sort of like we immediately, without even vocalizing it. I clearly, because I was stuck to a hospital bed, had to, um, we just kind of unspoken. We did this thing where every waking moment.

Zach was going to be, you know, taken care of by Bo, but would rush down and check on the whole Ethan for like 30 minutes to an hour, make sure I'd eaten and run back up. This is why I think I was not paying attention to anything about my C-section and like, I, I just didn't feel that much pain. I CA yeah.

How could I, um, so he has surgery as a day old. They tell us. He was born on the 12th. They tell us like, and the hard part is Ethan could not go into the NICU. So I never, I never got the twin experience until after sack came home because I could never hold them together. And I had had these, like all, we got to figure out how to nurse two babies at the same time.

That was not the case. I was nursing Ethan and Zach was getting his nourishment from. Formula and machines. Um, and I'm sure it was never part of like your vision that you are going to go home with one baby, only one baby and only one baby. Yeah. Which is crazy. Right? Like we knew that there was a chance that we'd have them prematurely.

We knew that there was a chance that they were going to, there would be a hospital or NICU stay. It never occurred to me that it would be one or like that. What happened to one was not going to happen to the other one. So I just, that was it blindsided us. Um, so they said, you know, you don't expect them home for Christmas.

It's usually a six to eight week recovery. Um, the, the surgery went beautifully. Well. Um, we were taken care of beautifully by our friends and our family. Um, I don't think that I spent much time with SAC, like in hindsight, because I was recovering from a C-section. I remember once Bo came down and he's like, do you want to see him?

And I said, yes, but, but who looks so Haggard? I was like, well, you just laid down and we just do skin to skin and we'll get a nurse to take me. So we call for nurse. It literally took 45 minutes. They were so busy for a nurse to wheel me up there. And so we'd been waiting for 45 minutes just so that someone could take me.

Cause I couldn't walk up. To see my son and I spent some time with him. And every time I spent time with him, I'm like a ness. And so I'm holding him. This is post-surgery, I'm holding him and. I'm a mess and I'm I'm could he nurse? No, he, no, he was H so after surgery had a feed tube feeding him, um, and they, they had to do swallow studies to make sure right.

Cause it's his throat to make sure. And so he was he eating in teeny tiny increments and they were testing to make sure it was the swallow study that I think you did the pass among other things before he could ever come home. Um, so I remember. I was like, I'm not waiting another 40, 45 minutes to get back down to Bo and Ethan.

So I took my wheelchair and I used it like, Oh, wow. Yeah. I can't even describe the amount of peanut was in. And I think at this point I wasn't taking pain meds. Like I think I have I've torn my ACL before doctors have said you seem to have a high threshold for pain, the contractions not reading. Right. I just don't, I don't feel, I think I have a high threshold for pain.

So that was the most excruciating pain I've ever been in using my, um, wheelchair as a, as a Walker to walk down to the hallway, get into the elevator, go down to the, um, maternity ward and come back to the room. I collapsed into bed bawling. And I think at that point it was like a cathartic release for everything that was happening.

Yeah. We go home, but we only go home with one baby. Bo's taking shifts visiting, and then we go up, but he's holding, um, Ethan in the family waiting room of the NICU, and then I go in it. So we never like Beau and I never got a chance to be with, with Zach, just the two of us, except for right before surgery.

We were there together with a whole host of medical team. So it wasn't like this private moment. Um, But then the greatest, most beautiful Christmas miracle happened. Zach is like this strongest fighter. We know, and he, they called us and they said, you can come pick them up. And it was Christmas Eve. So it only was two weeks.

The 12th to the 24th, they were like, this is the fastest recovery we've ever seen. I think your Costa Rican relatives or sending some message Catholic vibes. Yeah, for sure. I mean, everybody was on, you know, I had my good friend, Diane who's a chaplain come and she had, um, baptized him. Cause we just weren't sure what was gonna happen.

And um, but we got him home on Christmas Eve and I. I remember, we were like giddy school kids and we prop them up in their little, like bassinet in the living room and Bo and I slept intermittently. Right. Um, on the floor, Christmas Eve. Was that the first time you nurse sack? It was the first, Nope, that's not true.

I, in recovery when they moved him to the, like the healthy NICU side, um, they were nursed at the tube. Yeah. He, he was not, um, It was like, I was bottle feeding him cause I couldn't nurse him. I pumped and then would feed him that cause they needed to measure how much he was getting and they needed to see if he was swallowing.

Um, when, so babies who are born at 37 weeks, don't know how to nurse anyway. So that was a whole other podcast issue of like, how do you maybe we'll have you back on the breast breastfeeding twins? I think that that would be like a really good topic. I finally nailed it, but it was. It was, I mean, Ethan too.

Wasn't I was seeing a lactation consultant. This is crazy like taking until the lactation consultant take Ethan by himself to his first pediatrician appointment. Go see Zach have our meetings with the medical team. They're like Zach finally comes. I'm having meetings with a lactation consultant about Zach at the.

At the hospital, like finally, like come home. I think that's why when, when they were, everybody was home and people were like, do you need help? I was like, no, I got this. Cause it was the first time I had an opportunity to just mother, my two children at home. And you wanted that sacred time? Yeah. Also, um, It made the twin thing easier.

Like I think I extended myself a lot of grace because I kept saying why only have two hands. I only have two boobs. I only have, like, I saw some of my friends with single parents beat themselves up for this ideal notion of what motherhood looks like and miss that. Failed, you know, miss that Mark, which is mythology anyway.

And I think they, they, they were hard on themselves. And I think I was like, well, I got twins. And this one, you know, was in the NICU, struggling for life, you know? So I did a load of laundry and I watched the hair on my kids grow. I rocked it out today. You know what I mean? So I was going to say like here at the end of the podcast, I like to ask, like, what is your advice for moms of multiples.

And, um, moms whose babies go to the NICU. Like if you can pass along some Sage advice, like, what would you say to those that are coming after you? I, so I think in the birth planning process, be open to, to, to whatever story it might be. And I think that you can control the emotions. So, like I said, I. I would have never wanted a C-section delivery birth for myself.

It is totally a hundred percent. Okay. It was a serene, I think, as serene, a birth as anybody could have in an, in an operating room and that in that environment, um, I don't have any regrets about that. So I think that there's sort of a, a posture of just being open, um, w. If you have a child that's in the NICU, I think that you have to invest in self care after that baby comes home.

Um, because I don't, I don't know. I don't think it matters what it is that lands that child there. I think it's a traumatic experience and I think that there is a lot of processing and unpacking that has to happen afterwards. Um, and it happens slowly and over time. So don't, um, Don't set unhealthy expectations for yourself about what it's supposed to look like.

Um, yeah. Thank you for that, because I think it's really important that we remind moms and give moms permission for self care and to not feel guilty about that. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. I mean, um, I still, every Christmas Eve get really choked up at, at the story, Zach, still, like, if he's, if it looks like he's like.

Got a chip in his throat. That's like scratching him. You know what I mean? Like, it's not really a risk. I like, I hold my breath, like in it's a trigger. Right. And they will never not be a trigger. And there's just a, an existence. I think that that mothers have with, with children who have gone through traumatic experiences and it, and it's relative.

So like I have friends whose kids have been born. Who've needed heart surgery right away. Right. I've had. Two good friends whose kids have had heart transplants already. It is relative like the trauma exists. Even if your child was in the NICU for a week, it's like, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.

Even if you have a completely healthy baby, you take care of yourself. And that looks, I recognize what that might look like for you in the early stages. Is that sleeping when they sleep and giving yourself permission to do that and not the dishes or the laundry, or, um, You know, I think it might be different if you've got.

Other siblings in the home, but you it's still vitally important that you carve that out, say yes to the help. When, when, when offered and be directive, like, say, I know you want to hold this baby right now, but what really helped me is if you could just start a load of laundry and if you can start the little laundry and then I promise you can hold the baby or come and let me just take a bath.

Yeah. Hold my kids. So I just can. Take a bath. And I will say Shawn practices, what she preaches because when I had my baby, she came over and did my dishes. I don't think you even know. Well, no, you nursed him. I'm sorry. That's another podcast for another day, but yes, but you came over and did my dishes and I was quite thankful for that.

So as we close out, favorite baby products or products, like when you look back six years ago, was there something that you were like, Oh, this was my go to, I mean, Those damn swings. The little baby swings. Yeah. My children slept in that a lot. Yep. And two of them side by side, two of them side by side. Yeah.

That, uh, we could do a whole podcast on like, what year are you, what you need and what you don't need. You don't have to buy two of everything. That's just going to junk up your house. Um, do you remember what the brand of the swing was? I think he was like the coat little lamb. It is what it was the one.

Right. And so you placed the baby very cute. A little mobile, like above it. Um, yeah, so, yeah. And um, for us, we SWAT all bet swaddled with arms out in the swaddles. We're pretty, um, vital. Cool. Cool. Well, thank you so much, Sean. That was awesome. Like, you know, you're my bestie. Yeah. Um, I was part of the story.

So I feel like a cheater asking you all these questions, but it was really beautiful to relive it with you. So, yeah. Thanks for coming on. And we're gonna, we're going to do part two with Sean on nursing. Multiple. Sure. You should see her face right now. That's amazing. Oh God. I mean. Nursing them until two.

You want to talk about that and talking about all of it. All right. We hope everybody has an awesome day or night, whatever you're listening.

Thank you for listening to birth story. My goal is you'll walk away from each episode with a clear picture of how labor and delivery might go. And that you will feel empowered by the end of your pregnancy to speak up plan and prepare for the birth you want, no matter what that looks like. If you're enjoying this podcast than I, or help to spread the word.

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