43 Mrs. North Carolina Nichelle Sublett on Fertility and Her #startasking Movement

The journey from pageantry to parenthood was long and winding for Mrs. North Carolina, Nichelle Sublett, who created the #startasking movement on her Instagram in order to help promote early fertility assessment awareness to women. Nichelle’s favorite baby product is the Haakaa, a useful little device that helps catch any spilled milk from the breast you are not nursing from if you are prone to leaking.

Looking for a Virtual Doula to create a custom birthing experience and guide you through your journey to parenthood in the United States? Contact Heidi at www.mydoulaheidi.com For additional free birth education resources and to purchase Heidi’s book, Birth Story: Pregnancy Guidebook + Journal, visit www.birthstory.com. Want to share your thoughts on the episode? Leave a review and send a message directly to Heidi on Instagram.

TRANSCRIPTION

What does a contraction feel like? How do I know if I'm in labor and what does the day of labor look like? Wait, is this normal? Hey, I'm Heidi. My best friends. Call me hides. I'm a certified birth doula host of this podcast and author of birth story and interactive pregnancy guidebook. I have supported hundreds of women through their labor and deliveries, and I believe every one of them and you deserves a microphone and a stage.

So here we are, listen each week to get answers to these tough questions, birth story, where we talk about pregnancy labor deliveries. Where we tell our stories and share our feelings and of course chat about our favorite baby products and motherhood. And because I'm passionate about birth outcomes, you will hear from some of the top experts in labor and delivery, whether you are pregnant, trying desperately to get pregnant, or you just love a good birth story.

I hope you will stick around and be part of this birth story family. Thank you for listening to the birth story podcast. If you are tuning in for the first time, I want to encourage you to start at the beginning.  I want you to go on a journey with me and allow me to be your virtual doula and teach you.

All the things along the way. So I'm just going to give you a couple highlights. So some of the earlier podcast episodes, if you are just now tuning en so very first episode, episode one, you can learn all about it. See who I am, why I became a doula, why it is I do what I do and also my very own birth story with my second child Jagger.

Then I have interviewed some really cool CEOs. So episode three, Tori Jones is the CEO of ECL triangle, and she was also featured on Rachel Hollis's. The rise podcast. Episode seven was Rachel Coley. The CEO of can do kiddo. She was just on good morning America. She's an incredible occupational therapist that teaches you how to play with your baby and her baby.

Burst stories are incredible. Episode 10 was one of my best friends. Amy who had a V back in the car. We have done episodes on micro preemies episode, 1821 on international adoption out of Uganda, 24 and 25. Oh, those episodes like get a box of tissues. They're unsafe, Argosy and cancer. We've addressed hypnobirthing fertility, really easy, joyful medicated birds, really hard, long labors educated, unmedicated, everything in between.

So I hope you'll start at the beginning. Let the birth story podcast take you on a journey all the way through and enjoy this episode and then remembered a rewind all the way back to episode one. Thanks for tuning in. Nichelle sublet you guys. This is mrs. North Carolina. I mean, it was incredible. I just felt like I was sitting in a room with a queen.

There is so much to learn from this woman in her fertility journey and her platform. Oh, I just can't wait for you to hear right now from mrs. North Carolina. Good morning, Michelle, how are you doing well? How are you doing? I'm doing yeah. Great. And I'm so excited. You're actually live in the studio today on the bursary podcast.

Thank you for being here. So anyone who's listening, this is Michelle sublet. And if you don't live in North Carolina, She was crowned mrs. North Carolina. And we're here to talk today about her birth story, her life story, and as well, her platform with fertility. So Michelle just, can it tell us all about who you are and how we can get in touch with you also?

Oh, sure. Well, I am a Charlotte TN, just so that the audience knows I moved here when I was in first grade and then moved back in 2010. At that point I met my husband, which was wonderful. We actually met through a mutual friend who thought that we would be a good match and. Here we are not all the hookup.

Yes. Okay. Wait, where'd you go? So you go where you leave. That's true. I kind of just skipped ahead, but yes. So I went to the university of North Carolina at chapel Hill, go heels. And then I came back for a post-bac year. Cause at the time I was premed really thought I wanted to go to medical school and be an OB GYN actually.

But I changed gears, went to Hampton university for a masters of medical science degree. And then I started working in pharmaceutical sales for Novartis Hickory up to West Jefferson in North Carolina. And after that, I was working for a small financial firm doing marketing and outreach. And now I work for atrium health.

I started out in community relations with behavioral health. And that was very interesting, very different. Cause I didn't know a lot about behavioral health, but now I do. And then the past five years I've been with the physician liaison team with corporate communications, marketing and outreach at atrium health.

So for everyone that's listening, that's like, what is a physician liaison? Can you describe that profession? Sure. So atrium health is a huge. The system, as everyone knows. And so we make a lot of the connections between the primary care docs and the specialists. So we really need primary care physicians to know what services are out there.

What specialists are out there and who they can refer their patients to. So we are making those. Basically face to face connections through luncheons, dinners, breakfasts, also bringing that special to the office to meet with those providers. So it's, it's a lot of strategic development and growth for atrium health.

Okay. So everyone's working within the same system, but because it's so big, they don't necessarily all know each other and aren't, you know, best friends for referrals. And so we're going to get into your platform from mrs. North Carolina. And before we do that, though, I see like this obvious tie to fertility rate in primary care.

Because so many young women have never been to a gynecologist before they just have a primary care physician's assistant or a physician, or maybe their nurse practitioner at their university. And it might be many years before someone actually goes to a gynecologist because our primary care providers usually can do our routine gynecological exams.

And so I sort of love the role that you're in and maybe that ability to be able to tie. Primary care to OB GYN, but as well as like the fertility specialists and your role. So you've really, you've got a very full circle platform. It's pretty cool. Thank you. Yeah. I love how it all ties together. Yeah. Okay.

So I have a million questions and we're going to get to your birth story. That is pretty robust. But I want to talk first to our audience about like, how, how did you become mrs. North Carolina? I mean, this is, this is a pretty cool thing. So did you grow up in the pageant world? I mean, how did this whole, and actually I didn't, I never did pageants as a child.

I was a gymnast and I played field hockey. I used to dive, ran track, so I did a lot of sports and then I became a cheerleader and then I cheered it. Chapel Hill as well. So again, go heels, but no, I never did pageants. I had friends who were in pageants and was always really impressed, but I felt like I was too short and I always heard that pageant Queens were super tall and I'm five, three, so, okay.

And I had a really good friend who was mrs. Georgia, about three years ago or. Well longer than that, actually through the mrs. America system STEM. And she kept telling me how she thought that I would be really good for. Mrs North Carolina and that I should try it. And every summer I kept saying, well, no, I can't do it because I'm going to be pregnant or I'm doing another fertility treatment.

And I kept putting it off. But eventually I decided to go ahead and try it and thought, okay. What do I have to lose? It'll be something new, something different. I wasn't pregnant anyway. So why not do something with my time that can make an impact to other people. This is where some of our stories are crossing too.

So you had a healthy curiosity clearly about this pageant and you were adjacent with some. Friends, but at this point, I'm assuming then you were already married to your husband and were thinking about, or trying to have a baby. So let's reverse in that story just a little bit. So you had graduated, you had had these jobs and then how did you meet your husband?

The, where did he come into the picture? And what's his name? His name is Harold. And we met through a mutual friend. So Harold and this mutual friend, we're in a date auction together. And I wasn't actually at the data auction, but I was looking through the pamphlet and thought, wait, who is this guy? Like, he's really cute.

We're about the same age. It seemed like he was really intelligent based on his bio. And I asked my friend if he could hook us up. So did you say like, I want to bid on him? No. Cause I wasn't at that. I wasn't at the auction. I'd be like, can you bid from afar? Like make sure no other girls are bidding right.

Or guys or guys. Right. Yeah, it was, it was pretty funny though how that happened. Yeah. So they, so this person has mutual friend, like, and was it a blind date? Sort of, so he told us, I go to the sunset club, which doesn't even exist anymore. I remember it. You remember it? Okay. And he said, Oh, if you guys don't like each other, it's fine because.

There's lots of people there there's a party going on. It's not, there's no pressure, basically. So we both liked that idea of just being able to meet that way. And we really hit it off. We talked a lot that night and. The next day, we actually went to a pool party together and sat in a jacuzzi and talked for like three hours and kind of the rest is history.

My God, your blood pressure really so low. Yes, probably I'm like in and out of that jacuzzi tub. So what year was that? That was in 2010. Okay. In 2010. And then when did you get married? We got married in 2013. Okay. So that's a healthy dating, uh, like, like foundation right there. Three, three years. Mine was like six, six months that and August of 2012 and then got married in April of 2013.

So, Oh, we got married in April 17th, so awesome. There you go. Yeah. We're having all these parallels. This is very interesting. So you guys got married three years later? Yes. And then in dating life we're so I think what's really important to know is how old were you when you got married and then were you already thinking about and talking about having children?

Okay. Yes. So when we got married, I was 30 years old. Okay. And so it was Harold. We were talking about having children. I think he was more interested in. Being married a couple years and then starting to try to have children. Whereas I was gunning for children from day one because for whatever reason, and maybe because my mom had me at 28 and that was just kind of the standard I saw it.

Oh, I'm already. Super old. So we need to get started right away. So little did I know I really wasn't old, but I just felt that way. I definitely believe in the biological clock. Like I can remember being 30 years old and I wasn't married and I didn't, I wasn't in a serious relationship. I was much older to this process and I just remember like, It was like a light switch went on.

I mean, I had just gone through my twenties and was like, everything's, I'm like, everything is awesome. You know, I'm sorry. Them talk like, you know, you're not really thinking about much serious. And then it was like, Oh God, I turned 30. And I'm like, I'm never going to have kids. I've got to like, get married.

You know, something happened. And so I can only imagine what that feeling would be like if I had been in a committed relationship that I knew was ultimately going to lead to hopefully a family when that biological clock kicked in and that's different everyone, but it sounds like yours was right around that.

30 year old Mark. Yes, absolutely. I grew up thinking I was going to get married at 26 and have kids by 30 and actually be finished having kids by 30. So this was just a totally different situation that I was in. So yeah, you were like, Harold, let's go. And he was like, pump the brakes and then you eventually must have come to terms with, okay.

Let's let's do this. We did. I mean, he was totally on board with me getting off the pill when we got back from our honeymoon and just. Pretty much seeing what happens. So I'm sure you've heard it a hundred times. We weren't trying, but we, weren't not trying, but my very type a personality after a few months was starting to get worried, like what's going on.

We're not that old. So I wanted to go see my OB GYN and talk to her about. Why weren't we getting pregnant? So we got married in April. I think it was October that we made a first appointment with her and she diagnosed me with PCOS, polycystic ovary syndrome. And at that point she said, we should get on Clomid.

Okay. So we got on Clomid for two months and the second month I got pregnant and we thought, Oh, wow, like this wasn't that hard. As soon as I ambulated bam, I was pregnant. This wasn't bad at all, but unfortunately we lost that pregnancy at eight weeks. I'm going to pause you because there was so much there that I want to unpack and I don't want to breeze through any of what you just said.

Sure. Um, when we say we're trying, I'm not trying that's sometimes I feel like this like cover up that we do like really. Really we're trying. We're hoping, at least we not be, we might not be trying, but we're hoping we're probably having sex with our partner more than feels natural because there's a little bit of hope and anticipation and fun there.

And then not discounting from April until October every single month when your period arrives. When you're trying not trying. And then kind of that range of emotions that you fall into. Right? Like I remember very clearly what it's like to. Get your period when you're not expecting, you know, a period. And thankfully my fertility journey was short.

I was able to take hormones from October of one year. I don't even remember, and then was able to get pregnant July the next year. Right. So it was a relatively short solvable solution, but remembering what it was like to either not get my period. And I think I was a fragment and then just find out it was because I did not violate.

Great. I've been there many times. Yeah. So I want to just like, first of all, it's very important for anyone listening. Like April to October is a short timeline from a medical perspective. Right. But from a typing, Michelle, who's like, that's your quick to go to the doctor. So. First of all high five, you for that.

Thank you. Because people are told to wait a year and I'm like, I'm so on my, like, I don't even have this platform, but my platform is like, no, a year is way, way, way too long. I don't care if you're 20 years old or you're 30 years old or 40 years old. And I'm not a doctor, but a year is too long. Right? Like, so I feel like you appropriately went.

To the doctor, you know, pretty soon, but P PCO S I mean, this is a big diagnosis stick ovarian syndrome. Yes. Or polycystic ovary syndrome. It's used both terms are used interchangeably. W did you have symptoms? I mean, how did we get to PCOM? Well, there were a few symptoms. So if we rewind back to when I was 19 at Carolina cheerleading, there was probably nine or 10 months where I didn't have a period.

And I thought it was strange. But when I went to student services, student health services, one of the nurse practitioners mentioned. Well, maybe you have PCLs which when I, I talked to a few other doctors, they thought that was ridiculous. Oh no. Like you don't have the symptoms. You don't have the male pattern, hair growth or the obesity.

But what I did have was the miss periods. And then I had other doctors, you know, telling me, well, it's because you're a cheerleader, you're an athlete. You just don't have enough body fat. So there were signs it's so commonly told to athletes over and over and over again. So many of my fertility clients are runners.

Right. And they're told over and over again that they're just not obviating or having a period because they are running, you know? Uh, and that could be true. That does happen. Right? Like, but both things can be going on. Like, you can be a cheerleader for chapel Hill and tough PCLs you can be a marathon runner and have PCAs.

Right, right. They're not mutually exclusive. Yeah. But at the time, no one offered to help. Dig in deeper? No, I mean, and at that point I just dismissed it and thought, okay, well, if that's what they're telling me, then I probably don't have it. Cause I don't have the classic symptoms. Did they put you on anything like birth control to try to induce you obviating or, or having a period?

Yes. So then I went through a series of years where I was kind of on and off birth control. So when I was on birth control, of course I had the bleed every month, but then each time I went off, it would just get really wonky. Like maybe I would miss it. It's a few months here or there, but then when I did get a period, it wasn't necessarily heavy, but yeah, I had like the worst cramps in the world and had to be put on hydrocodone, like for the pain, that should have been a red flag.

Yes. Yes. You would think so. No. I mean really 19 to 30 that's when I'm finally diagnosed with this and it was through ultrasound blood work. Yeah, ultrasound and blood work. I love this because you go in you're 30 years old, you're a married woman and you're like, Hey, I've only been trying for six months and they hear you and listen to you.

Yes. Did you go, who, where were you at? So at the time I went to Midtown gynecology, which isn't open anymore, but there are no Vaughn owned by. I went to gesture gynecologist. You weren't like. At a specialist yet? Yes, but I will say my gynecologist and my mother are very good friends. Well, she was my gynecologist.

She's not anymore. So I almost feel like I was taken more seriously because we had a relationship outside of okay. And your mom was like, I need a grand baby. You know, I need a grandbaby. She, she didn't say way too much. Actually. She was kind of at this point, we weren't even talking to anybody about what we were doing or our plans.

Okay. And my mom. No. Okay. So that was not going, no, that wasn't going on. Thank God. There was a relationship and a connection there though. I just want to highlight this because I know that there are women out there that are going to be listening that went to an appointment and they said, come back in another six months and they didn't feel like they had been heard or taken seriously.

So if there's something that like Michelle and I can leave with you today, it's, you know, advocate for yourself. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I'm glad that she did do all the testing and said, let's look into this because otherwise I probably would have said, Oh, well, you're telling me, come back in six months.

We'll wait another six months. I mean, people just listen to whatever their doctor tells them. Yeah. So what were the tests? So there was one for FSH. Okay. Which follicle? Stimulating hormone. I know there was one for ovarian reserve. Ambulation was checked and. I was told, no, you're not operating. So they check it at day three.

I guess you have your period. And then on day three, they check to see what your level is. My level was never at the ovulation point. And were they looking with ultrasound also? Yes. Yes. Okay. For those follicles and for that population. So this is done usually side-by-side with blood work and ultrasound.

Yes. So exactly both in conjunction. And she said there were these chocolate chip looking things on my ovaries that we could see, and that those were the little. Cysts or the, yeah. So this is, and again, I'm not a doctor, so on one over here, both on both on both. Yeah. I have lots of chocolate chips, lots of chocolate chips.

Okay. So then, so you get this diagnosis and for this, is this relieving to you or is this. Like a terrible diagnosis. Does that make sense? Like at that moment, did you feel like, Oh, there's a reason I didn't get pregnant for six months or were you like, Oh no, this is going to be a long journey. I pretty much fell apart.

Yeah. The doctor's office crying. She's telling me it's going to be okay. All you need is some Clomid like you are going to have a baby, but for me it did feel like a really bad diagnosis. Yeah. Your gut intuition was like, this isn't good. Right. Okay. So then she puts you on Clomid. How did Clomid make you feel?

So I'm just one of those people that actually did not feel crazy on Clomid. I know that everyone says that they felt crazy, crazy. I had horrible, hot flashes. So that was really my only side effect. And you just take it, not just, but you take it five days in the month and then you have intercourse. I think every other day she told us during certain days.

And so honestly, like I didn't find it to be that terrible. Yeah, this is really important. What you just said though, is one of the number one causes of infertility is not having enough sex. Like you would never believe it. Right. But you go on like, it's like, Oh, but we had sex on this day. Like the cow, you know, but over and over again, the data shows that having sex every other day rape before, during, and then afterwards.

So, you know, We never exactly know if you're not being tracked with ultrasound and blood work, um, or your temperature or whatever people are doing. But one of the things that if you're just at home right now, and you're maybe a month into this is making sure that you're having enough sex. And every other day, and I don't exactly remember it had something to do with the motility of the sperm.

Exactly. Giving them time, the regenerate or something like that. Maybe I'll put it in the show notes, but it was definitely factor, you know, every other day. Yeah. So that brings me to also like. Very quickly, you had a female factor infertility the diagnosis, but did it, they just land just at that or did Harold go and also get checked to make sure that there wasn't also a male factor infertility simultaneously occurring?

So Harold had a semen analysis that she recommended and everything came back glowing, which of course makes me feel like dirt, you know, like, Oh, great. My husband's perfect. Exactly. Is it a brochure and an auction? Not to discount that you're mrs. North Carolina, right? I know I can totally hear, you know, that that would be a really frustrating feeling.

It was. And then making sure that you don't think that your partner is looking at you differently. Exactly. And I'm thinking, well now are you looking at me sideways? Because everything came back perfect on your end. So it was a good thing and a bad thing. Like, of course you don't want to have female and male infertility, but it still made me feel like, Oh, you know, kind of less of a woman that I had this.

Weird thing going on with my body that I didn't know about. Yeah. So they put you on club med for five days. You had these hot flashes and then you got pregnant the second month. Not the first month. Okay. The second month. Okay. And I know that you just mentioned that this pregnancy resulted in a loss of that baby at eight weeks, but I want to talk about the joyful part of that.

So tell me what it was like to find out that you were pregnant for the very first time. It was absolutely amazing. Like I'm getting chills right now thinking about it. And I was planning how I was going to tell Harold, because I had taken a pregnancy test that morning. Cause something just felt a little off.

I think I had. Sore breasts. And I didn't want to call them. I mean, he was at work, so I waited until he got home and then I pulled out the pregnancy test and was like, yeah. Oh my gosh, we're pregnant. And I mean, it was, we were on cloud nine for awhile. Well, at least I was, I mean, I think he was too, but just the fact of telling him you're going to be a daddy was just.

Yeah. And then did you go back to your doctor for a confirmation appointment? Yes. So at that point I called the office and told them I'd taken a home pregnancy test. And then they had me come in actually that day. So before I even told Harold, I had to go in and get blood work done and they confirmed it and then I had to go back 48 hours later to see if it was appropriately rising and.

Then she did one more check and said, okay, it's appropriately rising. Everything looks great. Come in in a week. And then that next week was when they did blood work again, and it was going down, it was going the opposite way. And I was frankly shocked. I mean, I thought the hardest part was going to be getting pregnant, never in my wildest dreams.

Did I ever think I would ever have a miscarriage? So that was just. It just blew my mind. I didn't even know about people who had had miscarriages. Like it was something kind of foggy in my mind, like, Oh, I think when I was eight, my mom was telling me about somebody who had a miscarriage. Other than that, I just didn't have any type of context for that.

Yeah. So tell me a little bit about that first miscarriage, if you don't mind that I, if I asked that question, but, um, so your levels were going down, but I presume that you weren't. Having a miscarriage. No, I, yeah. So she told me my levels were going down and then it didn't look good, but a part of me felt like, Oh, well that's probably just some random blip, like I'm sure.

Yeah, everything's fine. And so when I went back in and they checked them yet again, and they were still going down, then I started to think, okay, this is real. And I can't believe this is happening. How can it be. At the time, so hard to get pregnant and so hard now to stay pregnant. And I had all the symptoms of pregnancy.

I was extremely nauseous and had tender breasts and I had everything. So I had no idea. But she did tell us to come in for a first ultrasound at some point. And so at about eight weeks, that's when we went in and there was no heartbeat. So could you see the, you could see the gestational SAC. Yeah. And you could see a fetal pole, but yeah, but it hadn't continued to develop after.

Those first couple of weeks. Right. And she had us come back in again as well and look at it and cause she said, well, let's wait again and see if maybe a heartbeat will come. She thought we were far enough that there should have already been one there, but let's just check. And once again, there wasn't. So, um, unfortunately, yeah, it didn't work out.

So around eight weeks, I guess you had to come to terms with the fact that, that, that. Child was not going to be continuing on with you at that point. Exactly. Did they give you an option to, of what to do like to allow your body to miscarry? Like did they say what would happen? What happens now? She did give an option.

She said that some people will wait it out, but that, that could potentially be three to four more weeks. And I just wasn't mentally capable of doing that at that point, knowing that. The child I was carrying was no longer living or maybe never was living. It just was too much for me. And so she recommended to do a DNC and that's what we did January 14th.

I remember the day it's like, you never forget these dates and that was 2014. Okay. Yeah. So at the DNC, can you just walk. I haven't had anyone talk yet about their DNC podcasts. Do you mind sharing that process was like for you? So the process of a DNC, you basically make the appointment generally they can get you in within a day or two, which is really nice when you're just wanting to have some closure and kind of be finished with this chapter in a way.

So you go in, you. Are under IV sedation. So you don't remember anything really? I think the worst part to me I've now had three is waking up from it and just, Ooh, I'm getting emotional, but just realizing that you're no longer pregnant, you wake up and you're just in some room with a nurse and you know, she's holding your hand and.

You know that everything's over now. So it's very difficult and it takes a long time, at least for me, for like my body to get back to its normal state. So at least a couple of weeks that I still felt weak and just things like needing a lot of Mira, lax, things like that. And. Even being able to go back to working out and everything that takes a while, and I really love working out and exercising.

So that was always tough. And of course, just the emotional baggage. Oh. And let's not forget bleeding for a couple months, even sometimes. Yeah. And a lot of times after a DNC, it can take a long time for your period to come back. Or maybe it's just after miscarriage in general. I'm not really sure, but. It can take a while.

And for me, it always seemed to take about three months for me to get another period and even be able to try again, whether it was naturally or with a fertility treatment. So, yeah, it's, it's rough. I don't, I don't recommend it. I'm so sorry. Thank you. The good thing about a DNC though, I will say is you can have.

The baby tested to see if there was a chromosomal abnormality and with this baby who was the girl, there was a Crow, there were actually, there were three or four chromosomal abnormalities that they were able to find. And so that was gave a little bit of, yeah, peace and closure, knowing that. This baby girl, wasn't going to be born healthy and wasn't going to be able to live.

So basically her conditions weren't compatible with life. And so that gave me some peace knowing what, why would I carry a pregnancy full term? And then. Maybe lose the child then. So it gave a little bit of peace in that moment. Yeah. I have some clients that I've worked with that have told me that they felt like this was nature's way or God's way of, you know, It's heartache, no matter when it happens.

Absolutely. It is. No, I don't want to, I'm like, I'm crying with you. I'm going with you. I was going to say, I don't want to make you rehash too deeply the next five years or so. Cause there are a lot of joyful things that happen over the next five years. So you have mentioned just high level that this.

Story continued on through five pregnancies and five losses. Yes. All similar. Gestations mostly similar. I know two losses we're at about six and a half, seven weeks. I had one loss that went really far to me. It was 11 weeks. Okay. And then one was a chemical pregnancy. Okay. So about 72 hours. Okay. So one, you, you said you had three DNCs, so then two natural.

So the one that was natural, the chemical pregnancy, it was more like a heavy period that ended up happening. And then one of them, I chose to take a drug called . So. Basically, I think it, it makes her uterus contract and makes you have the miscarriage. So, yeah. And that was extremely painful, I will say, like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It really bad night. Yeah. It's very interesting because that drug is a prostate Landon. It's a hormone D I'm assuming they inserted it originally. It's also a drug that's used to induce labor. Because it's so powerful at, um, kind of a facing and thinning the cervix and causing uterine contractions so that they use it and both sides of that story.

So that's what I found out, which is very interesting. The reason that I think it's really important is because I think anyone who has taken that drug, I think. If there's any midwives or OB GYN that are listening to this, I think it's really important is that when you're using a drug like Cervidil or Cytotec or some of the brand names to help a miscarriage along, and then someone later goes on on their fertility journey and is pregnant and they've now hit 41 weeks or, you know, whatever it is and they want to induce.

Please not induce with that medication, which is actually what happened to me. Yeah. But I don't want to give away the story yet. Well, I didn't even know that, you know, sometimes I just use my big fat mouth. No, no, that's exactly what happened because one of the things we wanted to talk about on the show, when we get to your.

Birth story is kind of like PTSD about miscarriages. And so that kind of is going to, is going to tie into that story. But over the next five years, This was a very hard fertility journey for you, but yeah. Sounds like there was also a lot of joyful things happening to you personally and professionally.

Absolutely. No, I don't want it. Like, I just don't want to skim over that. So you're going through this really hard thing over and over again, but somehow you rise. Like you get up, you rise. I don't even know you. I don't even know all your story, but like, I know that you, you, you Rose so much that you did this thing that like no one can even think about doing, which is number one, being vocal and talking and sharing and not living in shame rate or that little voice inside of you that had said to you like, Oh, my body should be doing something it's not doing like you like.

Pushed all of that negative talk away and like Rose and then took it to the masses. I tried. Yeah. Now we're going to take a short break to just share a few things with you. Things for listening to the story podcast. I am so excited to announce the launch of my book. Birth story, a 42 week guide for your pregnancy, a collection of these birth stories, a ton of doula advice and journaling prompts.

You can order a copy today@birthstory.com. It also will mean the world to me, if you'll spread the word about this podcast, so on Stitcher or on iTunes, just leave a review. Thanks. Okay. So I want to, like, you have this friend that was ms. Georgia or mrs. Georgia, I don't know. And, and she was like, you should do this thing.

So yeah. So, so what happened? Yes. So my journey mrs. North Carolina started because a good friend of mine was mrs. Georgia. And she kept encouraging me to do the pageant. She thought that I would be a good fit and I thought. I have no idea what I'm doing. Like that was my first thought is how am I going to do a pageant?

I've never done a pageant. The other thing was, I always thought, Oh, well, I can't participate right now because I'm either going to be pregnant or going through fertility treatment. And so that doesn't go with pageants. So basically what I did was hired a pageant coach who came highly recommended. That is the thing.

I just want it to be prepared for all of it. Swimsuit there's evening gown and interview. And I really wanted to make sure that I knew what I was doing. It's a very expensive endeavor. So you don't want to just kind of fly by night. So I did a lot of research. I. Tried to prepare as much as possible doing YouTube tutorials and talking to other women who have done pageants their entire lives.

And that's how I ended up doing mrs. North Carolina. I will say I almost quit though, because, so after I applied and got accepted to participate and become a contestant, I ended up finding out I was pregnant again. And this was the fifth pregnancy that I had that didn't work out. Okay. Right before the pageant, I had a miscarriage.

And didn't know if emotionally I could handle it, but I remember the day it was October 12th, 2017. I said, no, I'm doing this. This pageant is in November. I've already started the process I've already been accepted. And I can't just keep sitting in this negativity and just all the tears and all the depression.

I just wanted to turn things around at the end of 2017. So I decided to still go for it and do it. Okay. So you were literally spent four, four years in this fertility journey. Don't even know what to call it. A journey, a journey, anything from the Clomid Letrozole, IUI or IVF egg retrievals transfers, natural pregnancies.

Went through all of that, all of it. And in the middle of this, you're like, okay, I'm going to do this extremely difficult thing and die and pour into it. It sounded like. It's to me that like, this is something that you needed to help kind of save you. Yes, absolutely. Which is amazing. I just can't. I just literally saw, I would pre curled up in a ball on my bed still.

Thank you. So you're an incredible person. So you, you do this, you get accepted, you find out you're pregnant and then, and then it. Then I find out. Yeah. So basically I get accepted I'm on my way, trying to figure things out and get ready for the pageant. Find out I'm pregnant shortly after about six weeks later, find out I'm having a miscarriage that time I had what was called an, an embryonic SAC.

And that was from a natural pregnancy. So completely unplanned had no idea. Wasn't trying to get pregnant because I was. Getting ready for pageant. So unfortunately didn't work out and. I just decided that time I wasn't going to sit in it. I just, I wanted to move forward and just take a break from all of it.

So I don't know a lot about pageants. Well, I mean, I showed up today in a sweatshirt and, you know, and I haven't shaved, I don't shake my leg, the wintertime, so we're fine. I get it like, so I don't know a lot about pageants, but what I do know from like, you know, being a little girl and like kind of watching some things.

With my mom, is that it the most interesting to me, the girl who shows up in the light. Sweatshirt over here though, was hearing each of the women speak and be like, I know that for me, that was always the most, you could be the most beautiful woman and in the entire world, but like, I was just always mesmerized by what these people had to say.

And so it was part of the coaching for you coming up with your platform or was that just. Obvious to you that this was going to be, see your platform was talking about fertility. My platform wasn't obvious to me at the time, because at the time I still wasn't out and open with what we were going through, except with really close friends and some family.

Okay. For me, I was excited, but also terrified when I started talking through things with my pageant coach and he said, well, of course, that's your platform. I mean, what, what are we talking about here? Of course. I was terrified because again, this was like this big shameful secret in my mind that, Oh, I kept losing babies and that I couldn't have a baby.

I just, I didn't feel like it was something that I could share publicly, but the moment that I won. I remember clearly feeling, Oh, this is absolutely why this has happened. This is why I've won this pageant right now is I have to put a face and a name and I have to put a story out about my fertility journey.

Like. It's just it's yeah, you have to, and you did thank you. And it's changing people's lives and it's going to continue to change people's lives because this is something that we have to keep talking about, that it is so normal. It is, you know, and so, no, I mean, for me, Because I wasn't sharing, I didn't know how normal it was.

I didn't know. Oh one in four women or even women in my own family who had had miscarriages or friends, it just wasn't coming out. But once I became vocal and started sharing, especially on social media and just talking to people, then so many women came to me with their stories and I realized I wasn't alone at all.

Yeah, we need like a similar, like the me too on a different, you know, a different hashtag like that. Absolutely. I do want you to talk a little bit about your hashtag that you created for your platform. Um, so just so go, let's do it right. Okay. Yeah. So hashtag start asking is encouraging young women, women in their twenties.

Basically to go to their doctors and ask for fertility assessment long before they're actually ready to start trying to have children, because I think we check for everything else, blood pressure. There's all these different screenings that we get, but we don't have a screening for fertility. That's widespread, basically, if you've been trying for less than six months and you're over 35, they say.

Go to a doctor. If you're under 35, then they want you to try for a year. Let's just take that off the table. I can't. I was like, I just can't no, let's just say I don't care what the guidelines are. Yeah. I mean, if you've been trying to get pregnant for years, six months, and you're not pregnant, please go right.

See a doctor. Cause you never know. And like you said, with the biological clock, you're just getting. Older by each month, you know, everything's getting older. Yeah. Bags, your uterus. Well, your uterus anyway, point being, please going to see your doctor prior to actually wanting to try to have kids. That's my main goal.

And if you're a parent encourage your daughters early on, even if they're going to the OB GYN, because they're trying to get birth control to not get pregnant, you know, through there. I don't even know high school and college years or whatever it might be for you're a particular child. Right. But there, it's never too early, you know, to say like, okay, well, what birth control pills should we be going on?

Is there an underlying disease here? We just need to start looking a little bit harder. I. As a doula get hired very early on in pregnancy. So early on that it's important to me in my awareness that Mike, some people are surprised by my contract, that my contract says there's a full review fund at a, if there's a loss at any time.

And that's because one in four women that hire me early. They will lose that pregnancy and we don't do enough talking about it, right? Like so excited with them when they call to share with me that they have just found out they're pregnant and they know they want to doula. And I am ready to jump on board and be on that journey with them.

Definitely. But I know, I know that one in four of them are going to have a miscarriage and. It's very difficult. Yeah. It's the reality, unfortunately, but it's so difficult. And when you don't know other people who have been through it, because maybe they're ashamed and they're not talking about it or they're silent, then it just creates more pressure isolation, I would say.

Yeah. And I just, before we get into your birth story though, which we're very close to, I just want to say thank you for sharing some of the details. Cause we also say things like ms. Pretty flippantly, but we don't really elaborate on like, what does that mean? What did that feel like? What was that experience like?

Um, it's so much more than. I had a miscarriage. And so I really feel like just talking to you today, got a little bit fuller of a picture of what that looks like. Um, so as we transition into, Oh, can I say one thing about miscarriage? I was going to say as a child, my perception of miscarriage was. That you would start bleeding overnight and there would be just, uh, all this blood in the bed.

I didn't realize that miscarriages happen different ways. And I think that's something we don't talk about that everyone can have a different type of miscarriage. My miscarriage we're always going in. Looking at an ultrasound and being told, I'm sorry, there's no longer a heartbeat or I'm sorry. There is no heartbeat.

And then having to decide what to do. So I just wanted to put that in there that. There's different ways that it happens. And I was completely caught off guard when they told me that very first time, because I'm thinking, Oh, but I'm not bleeding. I don't have any signs of a miscarriage. What do you mean? I didn't realize that it could be diagnosed by, Hey, your numbers are going down and now we don't see a fetal pole or now we don't see a heartbeat.

Yeah, thank you for sharing that. So in the miss North Carolina pageant, your coach helped you to develop this platform and to be proud of it and to be able to speak your truth. Yes. And so how was that received? It was received with so much love and care and admiration. And people cheering me on. I felt like the first time I posted something on social media about what we have been going through.

It was right after I won mrs. North Carolina. And that's when I said, okay, like, this is the day I'm gonna put it out there. I'm going to be transparent. And right after I clicked. To post. I felt like I was running around naked. Like, wow, everybody knows all my flaws. They know that this marriage isn't perfect.

They know that I've lost babies. Like this is, this is scary, but what followed was just. A community like wrapping their arms around me and support. I was able to take the biggest breath of my life. Like, wow, like this is finally out. I don't have to hide it anymore. I don't have to make up stories. When people ask me, when are you having kids?

I don't have to lie about it. So it was actually really refreshing and it healed me. It healed me too. Hear from other women to be able to meet them for coffee, lunch, chat on email, you know, just to help other women get through this. And at the same time I was getting through it because I always knew I was going to share my story.

I just thought it would be after I had a baby, like after everything was okay. Set and perfect. And I had my 2.2 kids. I did not know I was going to be sharing it in the myths in the middle of all that pain and grief. Well, while we're sitting here, I was actually gonna pull up Amy Schumer's Instagram. I don't know we're recording this before this podcast is going to air, but yesterday, um, I was just scrolling through Instagram and.

Amy Schumer posted a picture of her belly and her C-section scar. And it says I'm a weekend to IVF and I'm feeling really run down and emotional if anyone went through it. And if you have any advice or wouldn't mind sharing your experience with me, please do my number is in my bio. We are freezing my eggs and figuring out what to do in order to give gene a sibling.

This was such a plea for help. Yes. I mean, she posted a phone number for people to call or send. I sent her a text. Yeah, she got it. But I did too. And I made a comment too on the post. It was so powerful, but the curing right now, I mean, I'm sitting across from mrs. North Carolina. We're on Instagram with the famous.

One of the most famous female comedians in the world, Amy Schumer. And all that to say is that fertility like. It does not discriminate at all. Like, it doesn't matter if you're rich. It doesn't matter if you're poor. It doesn't matter if you're famous. It doesn't matter if you're not famous. It doesn't matter if you're black.

It doesn't matter if you're white. It doesn't matter if you're fat. It doesn't matter if your skin, I mean, like there's no, all women, all women are at risk and are kind of in this together. And so like your platform and your hashtag for raising awareness. Earlier. It's like the most famous person I can think of, you know, is crying out for help right now.

And you're a voice right now, this podcast right now, and your story is a voice for all of these people. So I just there's. I'm just so proud of you for what you chose. Like, I can't even think of a more powerful platform. Thank you. And so when were you crowned mrs. North Carolina? So that was in November of 2017, November 11th.

Oh my gosh. 1111, November 11. So a lucky day, you know, 2017. And then you've had the opportunity since then to kind of, you know, be a public figure and to have these conversations and to have this. Platform that you're using for such an amazing cause. Yes. And speaking of basically infertility knowing no limits, I feel like there's this misperception that women of color don't have infertility.

So that was another reason that it was so important to me to get the message out and put a face with it because we do. And in fact, sometimes. Twice as much. I mean, certain studies have said so. Yeah. Yeah. It was very important to me. And, and exactly why I asked you at the beginning of this podcast, if you felt heard too, because there is something that's going on in this country too, with unintentional, sometimes institutional racism and we're women of color are not feeling heard.

And so it's very important that we say like, No matter who you are that like, I believe that six month Mark. Yes. You know, don't be put off, right. Like advocate for yourself if someone's not helping to advocate for you. Yes. I agree. Completely. So Michelle, your story, I know you wanted to tell your story at the.

Point. Right. And you ended up telling your story in the middle of your grief and your sadness, but right now I get the opportunity to hear your story on the other side of that, because you had a successful pregnancy and birth and you have a baby boy named Hudson. Yes. So how many months are you? Four. He just turned four months on Monday and anyone listening you look good.

Thank you. Like your makeup off your body's back. Like you're doing great. Thank you. I'm trying and has loved to hear that. I mean, seriously, like I am very impressed. Are you back to work? I am so. Okay. That's early and that's hard. Yes, definitely. Yes. So let's talk about Hudson. Did you get pregnant with IVF IUI naturally?

How did that. Uh, conception go. Hudson was frozen for two years. Yeah. He was a little embryo and a little frozen embryo. So we had a frozen embryo transfer last December, December 13th, 2018. Okay. I know isn't it. All these dates are going to be there forever, forever, ever. So. You had five losses. Where was your head space where you like prepared for another loss or were you like this time it's gonna, this is gonna be it.

Like, where was your, I guess more like your intuition. What was your intuition telling you? In a way I didn't want to get too attached to a positive or negative outcome. I will say we, I skipped this part. We had actually signed with a surrogacy agency that prior July, and it was about a five to eight month wait.

They said to be matched with a gestational carrier. Our whole thought process behind that was we have these five embryos. We had done the PGS testing, which is free genetic screening. And these embryos that we created were deemed normal. And I just. Wanting to give them the best chance at life. And even if it wasn't me being pregnant with them, I was just, I just wanted a baby.

I just wanted our baby. I didn't care if I carry the baby or somebody else. I just wanted the baby to be born healthy. So at that point we were, I was between kind of two places of. Do I want to do another transfer or not? So after the pageant ended, cause everything ended with the pageant in 2018, like I was with North Carolina 2018.

So it was a year. Yeah. I just still felt this pole that I need to try a frozen embryo transfer. One more time. I had tried two others. They were not successful. I just wanted to try one more time, but I went into it a lot more relaxed because I felt like, Oh, well, you know, if it doesn't work out, we do have a gestational carrier.

Onboard. And so, Hey, let's, let's see what happens. And I always wanted to, I wanted to be able to say at the end I did everything I could. I tried as hard as I could. And. I had had this additional testing done in 2016, that determined that I needed an extra day of projesterone an oil, so not to get too in the weeds, but when you're doing a frozen embryo transfer a few days before the transfer, you start taking progesterone an oil through a really long time that goes into your hip.

It's actually super painful, but it was terming that I needed an extra day and I kept thinking. We kept thinking my husband and I, what if that really is the answer, like let's at least give it a try and see that was the problem. And of course, I'm so glad we did because maybe that was the problem. They, you know, my doctor was able to change up my protocol, add in that extra day a progesterone and we changed some other things with my protocol as well, but I'm just.

So happy that I did that. I tried it that one last time. So this ended up being your answer and tell me, how did your pregnancy go? Well, I'm not going to lie. The pregnancy was difficult. It was, it was full of anxiety because there is PTSD after you've had a miscarriage and I'd had five and I'd been through years.

Of getting my hopes up only for them to be let down. So honestly, each appointment was just filled with a lot of anxiety and just not wanting to hear those words that there's no law or heartbeat when you go in for a prenatal appointment. The doctor always wants to talk first. And I always just wanted them to put that machine on that fetal heart monitor.

Like as soon as possible, just, just let me know. There's still a heartbeat. Like the first few appointments are really difficult because I would cry pretty much until we heard that heartbeat. I would just get so nervous and I had all the pregnancy symptoms. Like it was kind of like, I went from one thing to the next, not to complain, but I had just the extreme nausea, extreme tiredness.

Then I ended up with acid reflux and carpal tunnel syndrome and stomach aches and having to sit up, sit halfway up overnight every night. Like I, I had to sleep kind of elevated basically. Yeah. Inverted. So I had all the symptoms, all the swelling. I wasn't like, Oh my gosh, like I've got that pregnancy glow.

No, I had all the acne. I mean, just. Pregnancy was really hard, but I kept, I tried to keep my mind focused on the end goal, which was healthy, baby healthy mom, healthy baby healthy mom. And that's what got me through. So I know nothing about your birth story. I think people listening to the podcast know, I don't like to know in advance, like what kind of happened.

So I have no idea any part of your story. And so I want to hear like, did you go into labor naturally? No, not at all. So my entire pregnancy, I kept hearing. Oh, he's so big. Oh, your belly is so big. There's no way you're going to go to you'll do your due date, which was August 30th. No way we get to August 30th.

There's no baby. So we're still waiting. My doctor and I discussed a plan that I would be induced if he wasn't here by September 3rd. Okay. September 3rd came and went. They scheduled my induction for September 4th. Okay. So that's when I went in size of the baby being the reason for it induction. Well, I was told by my doctor that he didn't want me to go past 41 weeks.

Okay. September 4th actually was 40 weeks. Five days. Okay. But, and you have a very accurate due date when you do IVF. Exactly. Like to the day, exactly. 40 weeks in five days. Exactly. He told me the baby would probably be between seven and a half and eight pounds. And I'm thinking eight pounds isn't coming out of me.

You know, you're five, three, but you're also very, very petite. And is your husband Harold? Not fatigued. He's not petite. He's close. About 61 62. Okay. That's not right. And did you know you were carrying a boy? Yes. Okay. So, okay. So yeah, so they were like, okay, we're getting close to that 41 week Mark. And you're probably carrying a bigger.

Boy for your petite body. So we need to go ahead and right. And so did they bring you in at night or did they bring you in, in the morning at night, at night? Checked in, I think at about eight o'clock that night. Okay. And shortly after we started the induction process, which was a fully ball, but I was not.

Dilated at all. Okay. So even inserting the Foley ball was just excruciatingly painful and that night. Contractions started. And I thought we were getting somewhere, but in the morning it turns out that I still had only dilated or I'd only dilated one centimeter. So, and the balloon was still in. Okay.

Cause that would typically fall out if you reached five centimeters, but they don't like to keep it in longer than 12 hours. So they'll usually remove it. Like if it hasn't fallen out. And that's what they did after 12 hours, they were right. They removed it. You were at basically not dilated at one centimeter, so it wasn't ready.

Definitely not ready, but they kept saying that the baby was doing great and that he was his heart rate was very stable. So then they wanted to do Pitocin. I was on Pitocin for about seven hours. And did not feel anything like didn't feel any contractions didn't feel any pain. I was having still Braxton Hicks, but the night of the Foley ball, I was in a lot of pain.

So this was nice. Just kind of having a break. Yeah. But then at the end of that, I wasn't dilated past the centimeter every half an hour. They go up on your Potosi, continuously monitored, and then they get to the max dose of Pitocin, usually by six or 7:00 PM. And you got to that max dose of Pitocin. You were not in labor.

Not in labor at all. So what did they decide to do? So then said, you know what? You can have a break and you can go not go, but you can have a regular dinner. Cause I had been on fluids for that entire time. And then we're going to start you on Cytotec tonight. That was a trigger. I was going to say, I like randomly brought it up early  but that was a big trigger for you.

Yeah. I was very scared about that. And I remembered that night that I had taken it and they said, Oh no, like your dose will be nothing like that. Or that would rupture your uterus. Like if we gave you the type of dose that we would give to somebody to have a miscarriage. So that made me feel a little bit better.

I took that it was oral. I ended up having pretty severe. Severe to me contractions overnight in the morning, they checked me again, one centimeter, but my water broke. Oh, okay. Now we're getting somewhere. Yeah. So I'm excited thinking. Okay. Oh, my water broke. Well, again, it didn't mean anything. My doctor said I could go ahead and get an epidural.

I was in a lot of pain, so. I went ahead, got the epidural. And then they started me on Pitocin. Again, it was kind of a last ditch effort, although he did tell me, I think we're running up against a wall and usually the wall wins. So after Pitocin for about three hours, doctor, yeah, very realistic. I appreciated him just telling me the real deal.

After about two and a half hours on the Pitocin, I still was only at a centimeter. So that's when they, he told me that I needed to have a, C-section basically kind of, we had the talk and I wasn't, I wasn't even really upset. I was just like, I just want to have this baby it's Friday. Yeah. I've been there since Wednesday evening.

I just want to have a baby. So very important because when any of my clients go for an induction, If you're, I cannot stress this enough on the podcast. If your body is not ready. You will not go into labor. Your cervix has to thin or a face. It baby's head has to come down and apply pressure to the cervix.

Sometimes it's just, baby's positioning one day an induction may fail the next day. The induction might work because babies turned a little bit and there's more. A lower of a head applying pressure. Sometimes they'll do the C-section they'll find out the baby was a little transverse or in kind of a position where they didn't tuck their head or something or whatever.

But I cannot stress that people get scheduled their induction and they think they're going to have a baby that day. Yeah. And I thought, and I have to tell all my clients, no, you probably are not going to have a baby today. We're going to do several days of like, it can be several days of cervical ripening.

Yeah. Many doses. Some women will have many doses upside the tech or serve Adele. Sometimes they'll do the balloon. They'll break the water. Like it's you had kind of, you had all of these things. Right, right. And then Pitocin twice. Yes. I've had moms that were induced for five days. Wow. Sometimes they ended up going into labor on their own.

And then sometimes they had a C-section sometimes they went home. So they said, okay, we tried for two days. Baby looks good. I didn't go into labor. I'm just going to go home for a couple of days. We'll try this again and do days, you know what I mean? See if maybe my body, right. Wow. There's always many options.

Someone, if I'm working with you, if I'm your doula and I'm working with you and you have all of this trauma and it. You just need a baby, right? Like I can feel where you were at in that moment. Like I have tried and I've tried and I've tried, but really I've tried for five years. Yes, I was. So over it.

Were you just walking to the operating room? Like, hello? Give me my baby. I was so over it, I kept telling Harold we've waited six years and now I'm having to wait even longer. This baby was due last Friday. Like, just give me, just give me, and now he's missed the school cutoff. He did just kidding. The school got off now and believe me, I was acutely aware of that.

Oh, that's so funny. But I was, yes, I was so over it for boys. It's the best thing that was, so I have heard that was born August 21st and we held him. Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. So this scene, the cutoff could be a good thing and the end, so they wheel you back. Oh, but they didn't wheel me back for another six hours and they were busy.

They were busy. They were like, Oh, we have emergency C-sections ahead of you where the baby's maybe being compromised. And so we really need to have those done first and you know what you guys look great. So just hang out here. Did they turn Pitocin off though? Okay. So everything gets shut off. You're able to, you're not able to eat and you had to go to a C-section so they won't let you eat.

Exactly. Could you have jello or. Popsicle? No, it was like nothing by mouth, right where you start. I was starving and thirsty. Okay. And I forgot. Yeah. Morning when my water broke, they found meconium in it. Oh, okay. And meconium is very normal post-term but it can also be a sign of distress. So I'm assuming they kept you on continuous monitoring just to make sure that like little Hudson was doing okay.

Yes. So he's born 6:07 PM. He was born. So I did finally get wheeled back. Yes. Harold was with you. Did you just feel people tell me they feel pressured? Sure. I felt a lot of pressure and they kept telling me like, when I would feel pressure, I didn't. Expect to feel that much pressure. So it was almost like, am I in pain or is this just pressure?

And I felt a lot of, I don't know, just, you just feel sick and sometimes it's not pain. It wasn't pain. It was just. It was uncomfortable. I will say that. Yeah. Some people have told me, it felt like they were doing mashed potatoes, like stirring, mashed potatoes, stomach. Other people have said pressure. Some women are like, I didn't feel it, anything at all.

You know, that must be nice. Um, on your epidural versus maybe like a spinal block too, like there's, if you already had an epidural, they would continue on with that. But if you were coming in for say a scheduled C-section, you may get a spinal block. So just a little different version of. The anesthesia who knows, who knows?

Um, so I'm dying to know right now though, like how much did he weigh? He ended up weighing eight pounds, seven ounces. Oh goodness. I was shocked. So he was huge. Yes. Your little body too. I couldn't believe it. And most the McCone him, everything was fine. He didn't inhale it or did he? Yeah, he didn't have to go to the NICU, but the neonatologists were down there.

They had to take a while to suction out. Everything. Oh, okay. Good though. But he stayed with you. Okay. I was like, please don't let this story end with any, he went into the no, it's good, man. Thanks. He stayed with you. So you got to see him and then did Harold Holden first Harold, hold them first and got to see him first.

Cause of course. But doctor's like, Hey, you can pop up and see now from over the curtain. And yeah. So then we were rolled back and honestly, a lot of it is fuzzy. Like, I really don't remember them putting them on my chest because you are drugged out of your mind. Yeah. Like I was woo. So I do remember when he first started latching and he latched very easily and just started nursing and it was just amazing.

Like I. The moment. I will never forget when the doctor said, okay, he's here, he's out. And I'm like, and I'm just bursting into tears and I'm, you know, I've got my arms out and, but I couldn't see anything. I was just looking up at the ceiling, but I just could not believe that he was here after six years.

He's here. Yeah. Yeah. And you take him home? Yes, it was a dream come true. Oh my goodness. Congratulations to you guys. Now, do you have a good milk supply? Were you able to continue to nurse? Thank goodness. Yes. So I'm still easy for you. I know. I mean, it was like, I couldn't believe that my body actually was able to create the milk and continue.

Because I've heard so many horror stories about nursing. And so I didn't know what to expect, but yeah, we've been exclusively breastfeeding for the past four months. Yay. Congratulations. That's a really a huge, like, it's just a big accomplishment. Thank you. Thank you. So I pumped too, but yeah. While you're at work all day or here, I was like, here, we've been here for an hour.

Right. I have a flexible schedule. We kind of make our own stuff. Joel, I have a territory. So sometimes I'm pumping in the car and that may not be the best thing, but yeah, I do. I do pump in different offices and things like that. So I try to. Stay on a schedule, but yeah, when I was a pharmaceutical rep, I also pumped to do in the car, in the car very, very often.

So traveling, um, working women, we have to do what we can do, you know? Oh yeah, I get it. So, Michelle, it was just amazing to have you on and to hear, I mean, I know I just like humbled you with questions. No, it's okay from like all different is a bursary podcast and I'm like, but I have to know all these things.

They just like do curious and if I'm curious and I think people listening are probably curious, so thank you for just like hanging with being for like so long and letting me dive in just so many things. Um, okay. So one last thing before we go is what has been your favorite, like pregnancy or baby product?

So the haka silicone breast pump is awesome. You're able to put it on one breast while the baby's nursing on the other. And so that extra milk that kind of. Collects that would maybe just go into a nursing pad, can be collected in a real place and then put away for later and you do not lose the milk.

Exactly. It's such a miracle invention and I'll link to it in the show notes. So I love that. And then really quick, how do we get ahold of you on Instagram or Facebook? And then if you'll just say your hashtag one more time. Sure. So hashtags start asking and you can contact me on Facebook through Nichelle Wynn, sublet, and it's Michelle with an N like Nancy or on Instagram.

I'm under Michelle w sublet and I'll link to both of those in the show notes too. Oh, and I also have a website www dot Michelle, sublet.com. Great. Well, Hey, I hope everyone will find you. Thank you. I just, I do have one more question before we go. Sure. This might be too much. It's okay. But I really, so what about the other four embryos to try again?

Or are you gonna pursue that? Um, uh, carrier. Okay. We plan our plan is definitely to try again. We are super hopeful that we can have this. Sibling or two for liberal Hudson and we, but we want to wait until he's maybe 18 months or older. Like, I feel like I need a break. My body needs a break. And I also just want to really focus on him right now and just like, enjoy that time.

Yes. Yeah. But yeah, definitely want more kids. Okay. Okay. Oh, wonderful. Okay. I just was thinking about it and I was like, Oh, that's that one last question. Sure. Thank you for joining me today and for helping educate everyone and for just like spreading your platform even further. And I hope that after today's podcast, you'll see a lot more of the hashtags start asking.

I hope so. Thank you so much for having me and for doing this podcast. It's wonderful. It's helping so many women. It is. Thank you so much.

Thank you for listening to birth story, Michael is you will walk away from each episode with a clear picture of how labor and delivery might go, and that you will feel empowered by the end of your pregnancy to speak up plan and prepare for the birth you want. No matter what that looks like.