50 Birth Stories with Sam from The Carolina Doula Collective

This episode is what happens when two birth geeks sit down and chat about birth stories. Meet Sam from the Carolina Doula Collective as she shares about her amazing births.

TRANSCRIPTION

Does a contraction feel like? How do I know if I'm in labor and what did the day of labor look like? Wait, is this normal? Hey, I'm Heidi. My best friends. Call me hides. I'm a certified birth doula host of this podcast and author of birth story and interactive pregnancy guidebook. I have supported hundreds of women through their labor and deliveries, and I believe every one of them and you deserves a microphone and a stage.

So here we are, listen each week to get answers to these tough questions, birth story, where we talk about pregnancy labor deliveries, where we tell our stories and share our feelings. And of course, chat about our favorite baby products and motherhood. And because I'm passionate about birth outcomes, you will hear from some of the top experts and labor and delivery, whether you are pregnant, trying desperately to get pregnant, or you just love a good birth story.

I hope you will stick around and be part of this birth story family. Thank you for listening to the birth story podcast. If you are tuning in for the first time, I want to encourage you to start the beginning. I want you to go on a journey with me and allow me to be your virtual doula and teach you. All the things along the way.

So I'm just going to give you a couple of highlights. Some of the earlier podcast episodes, if you are just now tuning en so very first episode, episode one, you can learn all about me, who I am, why I became a doula, why it is I do what I do and also my very own birth story with myself. Second child Jagger, then I've interviewed some really cool CEO.

So episode three, Tori Jones is the CEO of EHL triangle, and she was awesome. Featured on Rachel Hollis's. The rise podcast episodes seven was Rachel coli. The CEO of can do kiddo. She was on good morning America. She's an incredible occupational therapist that teaches you how to play with your baby in her.

First stories are incredible. Episode 10 was one of my best friends. Amy who had a VBAC in the car. We have done episodes on micro preemies episode, 1821 on international adoption out of Uganda. 24 and 25. Oh, those episodes like get a box of tissues. They're unsafe, Argosy and cancer. We've addressed hypnobirthing, fertility, really easy, joyful, a medicated birds, really hard, long labors, Kayden, unmedicated, everything in between.

So I hope you'll start at the beginning. Let the birth story podcast take you on a journey all the way through. Yeah. And enjoy this episode and then remember yeah. Or rewind all the way back to episode one. Thanks for tuning in. Welcome to the birth story podcast. I have Sam on this morning and Sam tells all about you.

So I am the mom of two. I have a three year old and a two year old. Um, And I live just outside of Raleigh, North Carolina. Um, I am a birth doula, the number of solar for about seven years now. And I own the Carolina doula collective. Very cool. Okay. Is anyone's like a big fan of the birth story podcast and you've been listening for a while.

Then you may have caught Sam's episode when we talked about COVID-19 and gave some practical tips for comfort measures, packing your bag and kind of what was going on in the environment during COVID-19. So now we've got you on the podcast again, to tell your own stories and I'm just so excited. How in the world, did you become a doula?

Like how did you know what a doula was? How did you become one of these, you know, things that we are? Yeah. So before I became a doula, my background is in crisis intervention and trauma counseling with women and children who had experienced. Sexual assault or domestic violence. Um, so I had a lifestyle that was not actually all that different from a doula lifestyle.

I was on call a lot. Um, and I was kind of working with families and working with them, women and children kind of threw a big. Process of transition and processing. And I loved that and I loved working with families and working with women and children. And I kind of liked being in a job where things were a little different every day.

But as I prepared to have my own family, my husband and I got married, you know, it was. It's not a super sustainable job. Um, for me, at least. And it was, you know, it was working in their shelter. So I, you know, worked crazy hours and it was pretty draining. So as I kind of thought about what I wanted my life to look like moving forward and wanting to have my own family, I.

It was kind of looking to transition out of that and have always loved birth and have always been very interested in it. But I didn't have a big frame of reference for, you know, the natural birth community at all. Um, I was born very prematurely. Um, so as my sister, so the birth narrative I had grown up with was much more medicalized and emergency based.

So I just, you know, through friends and through other family members kinda learned about. What a birth doula was. And I was like, this is for me, you know, I get to use some of my counseling background to help people work through this big time of transition. But, you know, it's just such a positive, um, career.

And I love, you know, getting to work with people. And it also gives me some flexibility to get, to be home with my babies and, you know, have the family life that I want as well. So I love it. Yeah. I love it. I always say flexibility, but not too much flexibility up until someone goes into labor. And then I have every client's birthday, like on lockdown who burns on my own children's birthday and you know, all the things preparing for Easter right now.

And last Easter, I was at the hospital out of birth. 32 hours. So I was like, what am I doing for Easter last year? Nothing. We didn't do anything for Easter. Mommy was out of birth. Mom was listening just that, like, you know, we try to support you. Like your nurses may have a 12 hour shift about like, we try to do, we try to.

Sleep when you sleep, we try to work when you work. And we try to, you know, I have many burns just like that, 30, 40, 50 hours, you know, most of them, I say, I'm at your birth 12 to 18 hours, you know, but every now and then we've got these marathon ones and we wish that upon upon no one. So, well, I'm so excited that you're a doula and that we're having an opportunity to talk about your own beautiful birth stories.

So did you. Become a doula and then become a mom. Okay. So you are already a doula, you know, I have been a doula for a long time, a long time. I'm a mom myself. So then, like I said, I've been a doula for I'm about seven years now and my okay, so you had a really good, like. Framework before you went into birth, this can be good.

It can also, you know, you can have it expectations for yourself when you see things go a certain way. And then you said there are three and two. So how exactly how close are they? 15 months apart? Yes. Exciting. So my max and Jagger are 15 months apart. Rare to find people with that particular spacing. I always seem to.

Find people who are a little bit closer, like 12 months apart or like further away. Yeah. Now mine was very much planned. Was, were you planned at all? Not at all. Okay. So we did fertility. Um, what we didn't do like fertility, I just had a long fertility journey. I should say. I just had to take some hormones, but it took about 10 months.

And so when I was going for number two, I was like, well, let's get this show on the road. And, um, two came around a little bit easier than the point that I love. Um, I have two rising kindergartners they're going to kindergarten together, which is kind of interesting when they're 15 months apart. So yeah, I love it now.

And they are, they're so close and I can't imagine it any other way, but it was definitely, you know, an adjustment in my plan and I feel like. Sometimes I feel a little guilty saying that, but I think it's important to kind of also be real about the way that life looks and release any other mommas from the guilt of, you know, things.

Not necessarily going as they planned and having to adjust their expectations to all of our stories look so very different. When you became pregnant with your oldest, you know, how did you find out you're pregnant? Yeah, so, um, we did plan my pregnancy with my oldest. You know, I have wanted to be a mom for.

As long as I can remember, and was very excited. My husband and I had been married, um, a number of years at that point, but we got married very young. So we had kind of waited to get through schooling and kind of getting settled in our lives. Things became very unsettled during my pregnancy. So I can talk about that a little bit, but we.

Had cleaned it. And, um, I had had an IUD in place beforehand, so I kinda got that removed and then was very lucky to get pregnant right away. So, um, my first cycle, after getting my ID removed, I got pregnant and had really, I, I knew like the whole week leading up to that miss period that I was pregnant, I was already like, Having breast pain and symptoms and stuff like that.

But, so I had taken a number of tests or any that week and they had been negative and I was kind of like snowing. So I woke up and went to the bathroom, took the test at like six or something. And I almost didn't look at it. Like I was, I had already taken so many tests that week that I was just like, whatever, this one's going to be negative too.

So I like left it on the counter and went back and laid in bed and. I was like, well, let me check. Like, I don't want to later be like, Oh, I didn't check it in the window and maybe it's not right. So I went and looked at it and it was positive. And I was like, my husband was still asleep and he was asleep in another room.

So I like. Kind of panicked and was like, that looks positive, but it was, you know, it was lines. It wasn't like the nice little like pregnant or not pregnant intentional one. So I'm very type a person. So I left immediately with no makeup on or anything and went to Walmart and got another digital test and came home and check it.

Was your husband still sleeping? He was still sleeping and made sure that said, you know, Pregnant and it did. And I was like, Oh my God. So, you know, because they have planned on getting pregnant, I had already kind of come up with a cute way to tell my husband, um, I have made it like a little onesy that was personalized to tell him, so I did.

Can he keep it a secret for a couple hours? And I put it like, it was part of the mail. And when he opens the mail, like an afternoon, he opened it and saw it and was like, Wait from six o'clock in the morning until the afternoon I had some things to do in the morning. So I was like out of the house and, you know, we were young and didn't have any kids.

So he slept in that happens anymore. Who's the first person you told, did you tell anybody? No. Yeah. Yeah. I did call my doctor's office and like ask to get a blood test, um, for like later in the day and did that, but I told him, so, and then, yeah. Yeah, I was going to say that was probably the longest day of your life.

Yeah. You know, I can't even imagine, cause I don't keep secrets. Well, I don't, I don't, I don't do secrets. So, um, it was, it was a challenge, but it was, so now you're a doula and you're running a business and you're pregnant. How did your pregnancy go? Like with how you're feeling. I want to know all about, like the reason I have all these questions about like being a doula and being pregnant is because I jumped ship.

It's a doula. Like I worked like a couple of months and then I, my belly was like bumping into my client's Belize and I was just like, um, but lots of doulas work all the way through it. So I'm curious to see like how you're feeling and what did it look like to go to work for you? Or how did that play out?

Yes. My pregnancy with my daughter was really hard actually. So I had hyperemesis and I feel competent in saying that my provider at the time and the BI, so I switched providers halfway through in my pregnancy. And my, my first provider was didn't handle things well, in my opinion. So I write in about six weeks pregnant, started getting very sick and I was throwing up like, Seven eight, nine, 10, 11 times a day.

And. Because, but I was very nervous about like taking medication and things and I had some other things going on in my family. And when I brought it up to them, they were like, well, if that's true, we're going to have to put you in the hospital. And I had had a close family member die. Right. At the same time that was happening and I needed to go to the funeral.

So I got very scared and was just like, nevermind, don't worry about it. Which is not something that I would recommend anyone do go get some ID fluid, get help, but I was not in the best place and was just like, nevermind. And just dealt with it. And it was. That was really hard because I continued to be sick like that through my entire pregnancy.

Um, can you define hyperemesis for everybody? Yeah. So it's, it's a severe form of, you know, pregnancy sickness, pregnancy, nausea, morning sickness, I guess. Um, that just, it doesn't let up through the course of your pregnancy in the way that regular. Morning sickness would, and it's just more severe and can cause weight loss during pregnancy and, um, you know, deficiencies and being more life impacting.

Um, then regular morning sickness would be. Yeah. And I just, while you were talking, I just wanted to give you the accurate statistic because I looked it up. So it's 0.5 to 2% women, some studies say one to 3%. Um, but that's, it's pretty rare. And so for anyone listening, I want you to hear Sam, like it's the very severe form of nausea and vomiting.

Yeah. So I, I was working as a doula, but I, for financial reasons was also working as a nanny and that, so because of how sick I was, and because of some of the other things that was going on, I didn't take very many bursts as a doula when I was pregnant, just because I was kind of having trouble. Keeping my head up.

Just also take care of these other children that I was nannying for and take care of myself. So I did make me feel better about my now I didn't take a lot of bursts. I, um, attended a birth for my cousin who lives not far from me and she was having a home birth. And that was when I was like eight months pregnant.

My nausea was doing a little bit better at that point. So I did. Come to her birth, but I wasn't even acting as her like soul doula. I was helping take care of her older child. So it was a little bit less intensive for me. And it was at her house. So I like just was able to come and hang out. It wasn't a big deal.

So I didn't take a lot of bursts because I was. Just kind of in survival mode. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Well, I think it's important because so many people listen to the podcast. I've found this, that people that write in because they're interested in being a doula. And this is something that whenever I'm mentoring and I know you do a lot of mentorship too, is to make sure that people check in with what their savings account.

It's like, because you know, sometimes you are able to work all the way through just like with any job, but being on call, waking up at two o'clock in the morning, when you're the most tired that you've ever been and working at 24 30 hour shift, it can be very tolling on a pregnant woman's body. And so, you know, making sure that you have really good backups and really good partners and you know, things like that, but these are things to consider, you know, number one when hiring a doula.

It's something to consider, you know, where they're at in their family planning and to have an open and honest discussion about that. I was still hired pregnant a couple of times, but everyone knew I had some limitations in that. Yeah. And I think, you know, I, I usually recommend to. To pregnant doulas that they do consider working with a partner just for their pregnancy, so that they kind of have that ability to switch off with someone or have a backup that they might use a little more liberally than they would.

A non-pregnant just so they can make sure that they're taking care of themselves. But if you set it up that way to where you are partnering with someone, you know, you make sure that your clients have a relationship with that person too. And that they're comfortable with both of you. Yeah. I'm still waiting for my like unicorn doula partner who wants to work nights and I work day.

I'm like I work from 6:00 AM to 6:00 PM and you work from 6:00 PM. Does that say we can all dream right? Lincoln Audrey Zell. Um, all right. So tell me the number. One question I get on the podcast is how do I know that I'm in labor? Like, what does that look like? So I was hoping that you might share, well, I want you to share that.

But I also want to hear from you. Did you being an extreme, like extreme preemie? Was this a fear in the back of your mind? Like I'm going to labor, like my mom, I'm going to go into labor early. I probably jumped ahead too much. Cause I wanted to hear from you on that. Like where was your head space as a doula, but also as a creamy and then.

How did you know you were in labor, right? Yeah. So, um, outside of the sickness, my pregnancy went well and wasn't complicated. And my daughter was doing really good job. We didn't know that she was a girl at the time we waited and found out at the birth. So my, my pregnancy outside of me being sick had gone pretty well.

I did switch providers at 20 weeks, which was. One of the best decisions I could've made, but it also gave me more sympathy for my clients that have to make that decision just because it was a little pain, but yeah, I was, I was anxious about it cause it was my first, you know, baby and I knew logically that, you know, my, my mom's experience probably wasn't going to have a lot of bearing on my experience, but at the same time, it's hard not to, to worry about the unknown.

And I, I was worried cause I, you know, I didn't, I didn't want that. And my mom, my mom never really knew why she had had two preemies. Um, she, my dad was in the military and you know, she was kind of just cycled through military healthcare and didn't have like a cohesive provider or. You know, experience or anything like that.

So she never really found out why that was the case and why it happened twice. So I was nervous about it when I got to like the 28 week Mark, which was around the time that my mom had gone into labor. I wasn't born until like, 30 weeks, but I was like, Oh, that's like micro. Yeah, no. Um, but I, I did get anxious and I felt very relieved once I had kind of gotten through like 32 weeks and felt like, okay, like I, I made it longer and that's be good.

So, you know, I was. I had some anxiety about it, you know, and then I didn't have that anxiety the second time. Cause they felt like, you know, I had, I had made it through the first time and um, my daughter was born at 40 weeks and three days. Um, so yeah, so I made it past my due date. Um, So, yeah, I had had a little bit of drama labor with Mo well, I had it with both my pregnancies, but with her.

Um, so I had had some kind of stop. And what that means is like stop and start contractions. And that are a little bit different from Braxton Hicks where it's just like the tightening, like they had felt like contractions and they, they would kind of start around the same time every day for a little while.

And then. Not intensify. So they would be like four to five minutes apart, but they wouldn't intensify or get closer. And then eventually they would just stop. So that had happened a few times and it's

labor is like, Every it's every doulas nightmare. It's every mama's nightmare. But like, really let's talk about this for a minute because we don't do enough talking. Right. Prodromal labor. It's so normal. I feel like it's less normal to just like, Oh, I'm in labor. You know, you know, I've done a lot of thinking about that because I had like five days of long of prodromal labor.

With my first and I've done a lot of like, just reflecting on it and I really have gone back to like what you just said with guest state. Right? Like, I really feel like the purpose of prodromal labor is like, Well, if you don't have a guest date and you don't have a cell phone and you're working out in the fields and we're not in the culture and society that we're in today, but we go back to like primal mammalian, burdening.

I really feel like prodromal labor is your body. Speaking to you like, Hey Sam, it's time to get safe. I'm just want to share with you like a little bit of what it might feel like, but this is my warning sign to you that you need to go home. You need to get out of the field, you need to get some food. You need to gather some water.

You need to get to your birding, you know, nest you, and I'm going to, you know, so anyway, so I've done a lot of reflecting, like, cause the first thing that happens to you when you have prodromal labor, Is why. Me like why God, why mentally and emotionally thing is the main thing. Like physically it's tiring, but it's not awful.

It's just like, you know, it's mentally and emotionally challenging because you kind of like gear yourself up to go into labor and you think like, this is it. And then it doesn't turn into anything. And then you kind of second guess yourself a lot. But no, I love that. And the way that I've kind of always thought about it too, is like, you know, The birth process is complex.

And even though it's natural, it's complex. And I think sometimes our bodies kind of need to like rev up and try to like, get all the puzzle pieces in sync of like your muscles and your hormones and the baby, and like everything communicating with each other to kind of make the process happen. And, you know, you just kind of have to.

Rev up and died and die down. But, so I had had that for a while. I don't even remember honestly, how long. So this is the next key question for someone who goes into prodromal labor and it's like, Oh, Oh no, I'm gonna leave her out. What was different? How did you know? Oh, I'm actual, this is labor. This is not stopping.

Yeah. What was the difference? So when I finally did go into labor, for real, the contractions were much more crampy than the pro drama labor contractions had been. So the predominant labor contractions were stronger than Braxton Hicks. Like they, they were uncomfortable. Um, but they weren't. Crampy down, like in the bottom of my, my uterus, like more like period cramps, they weren't crampy like that.

So those contractions felt a little bit different, but then also I started having bloody show and I think that that tends for most people, not everybody, but for most people will tend to be like a more concrete sign that. Things are progressing just because it is a sign of cervical change. So, so when I, I actually went into labor, I woke up at midnight and went to the bathroom and I had bloody show and I kind of been like tossing and turning for a couple hours feeling like I feel really crampy and I had taken some evenings oil, and I'm not saying that that caused me to go into labor, but at the time I was like, Oh, that.

Evening from Royals making me really grumpy or insert it vaginally or both. It's been three. I had another, I had inserted it vaginally. Um, I'm pretty sure. Okay. So I kind of been tossing and turning and then when I got up and saw that I had had bloody show, I was like, This is it. And I did the thing that all doulas tell you not to do, but because it was my first baby and I had had prodromal labor for so long, and I just got really excited and I like told my husband and I was like, I think I'm in labor for real, you know, this is so exciting and I like sat on my personal, and I

suppose if you are listening to this, go back,

let me be your cautionary tale as to why it is important to go back to bed. So, you know, things went fairly quickly from being like spaced further apart to being closer together. So like it only took a couple hours for me to get to where the contractions were closer to like four to five minutes apart and feeling more actively.

And where you were planning to birth in a hospital, it was very close to our house. We only lived about seven minutes away. Um, the funny part about this is that, um, it was. My right at Thanksgiving time. So my whole family had come down from Virginia and had come down and rented like an Airbnb so that they could have Thanksgiving with us.

And when I found out when my due date was. It was the day after Thanksgiving was when my due date was. And I said, well, I know when I'm going to go into labor and everyone was like, ha ha. You know, I said, no, like I know how my brain works. And I know when I'm going to go into labor and it's going to be when everyone leaves.

So everyone's going to come down and we're going to have Thanksgiving, and I'm going to want to go into labor while everyone's there so that I don't have to like call everybody back. You know, all of that does, but. As soon as everyone leaves, I'm going to go into labor. And that happened to me, my dad's birthday.

Um, so midnight on that day that I thought I was going to go into labor is when I did go into labor. Um, so everyone had left. 24 hours prior, if not, maybe not even that. So I called my mom cause she, I wanted her to be with me during labor and I called her at like one or two in the morning and she answered the phone and was like, what's going on?

And I was like, exactly what we knew was going to go on. So could you start to get ready to come back now? Oh my gosh. I love that. Okay. So did you have a doula. Yes. Okay. So you had your mom, my mom and my doula. Okay, perfect. Okay. So she wakes up, starts heading back? Yeah, she had, thankfully I, my mother's amazing.

Um, I, she had gone up back home, washed all of her clothes and repacked her bag in the anticipation of me going into labor. So she was ready. She was good. Um, so she turned around and came back. It was like a two and a half hour drive. I called my doula. So everybody. Congregated around like four 35 in the morning and kind of hung out and.

It was fun. I mean, we were just kind of in my room. And then as the sun started to come up, I went and walked in around our neighborhood and we joked about how, like the homeowners association, wasn't going to look kindly on my water, breaking any neighborhood or things like that. So I was feeling like things were moving well.

And, you know, I started to, I like got in the shower for a while and, you know, things seem to be in densifying and we all felt pretty confident that it was time to go to the hospital. So around like 1130 or so, I think in the morning we decided to go to the hospital and less. So LA is a very good friend of mine.

She's also an RN. And have been a labor and delivery nurse and as an IB CLC and said to me, if you're not at least seven centimeters, when we get there, like I'm going to quit like that, that has to be, cause I was very worried about going to the hospital too early. Why didn't she check your cervix before you went?

Um, I don't know. I didn't ask. I was like, wait, if she's a nurse or something, I was thinking the next part of this story was, and then she checked my cervix right now. I don't know she had done some like Doppler checks as a nurse with our nurse Atlan, other times pregnancy and things. But maybe she felt like if she had her doula hat on that, that was maybe she probably that also we're friends.

And I think. Probably would have felt a little bit uncomfortable about that. Yeah. But, um, so everyone's like, this is progressing. Like, let's go, we went over to the hospital and you know, I was in triaged. This, I was, this was the part I was most anxious about personally was kind of that transition. Car ride, you know, transition to the hospital.

So we went and I went  and the midwife who I had not met before her, um, came down to check me and I was two sentence dilators, first babies.

The story's about to go one of two ways. So I can't wait to know what your, the end of this is. Okay. So you're like devastate. I was just like, you gotta be kidding me at that. I was just irritated. And at that point I will say, and I only say this. To let people know the importance of kind of like advocating for themselves and that even as a doula and as someone who was like used to working in this hospital atmosphere and everything that I was in, it's still important to advocate for yourself.

So that midwife, I had not met her before in doing that cervical check, stripped my membranes. Without asking, which was a little hard for me when I realized that down the line, but it was uncomfortable and I wasn't prepared for it to be that uncomfortable. So that kind of added a little bit to my level of anxiety about like coming back and when I wanted to do that, which kind of plays into later part of my birth story.

But, um, this is a huge, we have to pause right here. Yeah. Stripping membranes often is done without. Informed consent. It's a huge problem in our country. I don't know about the rest of the world, but in the United States, it's a huge problem. And I don't know why. So the only thing I can say is any vaginal exams.

First of all, you don't have to have any vaginal exams. If you choose to have a vaginal exam, because it's your body, you're in charge of it. If you choose to have a vaginal exam, then it's totally your right to ask what's going on, what you want, what you do not want, you know, that you, like. I tell my clients to tell them you only want three numbers.

I want station dilation in a basement. I don't want anything else. Please don't strip my membranes, please. You know, honestly, if she had asked and said, is this something that you want, I probably would have agreed to it at that point, but she didn't ask. And I didn't understand. You know, I, even as a doula, I was in labor.

I was tired, you know, like I was frustrated at how things were going. So like, I wasn't thinking clearly I wasn't thinking like a doula, like, Oh, this must have been what happened? All I could think about was like, that was really uncomfortable and I don't understand what was going on. And I was already kind of anxious about this.

Part of the process. Um, so we left and I went back home. Yeah. So, cause we may try to keep you and say, Oh, let's just augment your labor with some Pitocin or an induction. And they, they offered to like, keep me in, let me like walk around for a while and see, and I just, I was like, no, I'm going to go home.

So you back home, my doula left and went to like check on her family. And at that point for a little while, so I came back home, I got in the tub and I took. Like a Tylenol PM, I think. And like decided I was just going to try to rest. Um, so I got in the tub, I ate a snack. I laid down and tried to rest a little bit.

Um, I was still waking up for the contractions and kind of like moving back and forth, but then I would try to lay down and rest a little bit. So I think that went on for an hour or two. So I was able to try to rest a little bit and then, you know, kind of woke up and was like, okay, like let's. Let's get this ball rolling a little bit.

And re-energize, so at that point, you know, I'm walked up and down the stairs in the house and I, you know, did some squats and tried to be active and kind of like. Get my, get my morale back up. Like, it's all good. My doula came back and I really, this is a really funny part of my personal story. So I just got into this routine of like leaning forward and like putting my head on whatever was in front of me and like moving my hips back and forth.

My husband was doing hip squeezes, um, and, or counter pressure. So. I just kept leaning over. And as things kind of intensified, I was downstairs, we lived in a townhouse and I was downstairs like holding onto my Bannister and like leaning forward and moving back and forth. Cause I have been going up and down the stairs.

Well, I had my Christmas decorations up because I'm trying to be like on top of it. So there was Garland when the banister, so I literally got. Like chafing on my forehead. And my mom was like putting lotion on my forehead because it was like shaping from me leaning over and like rubbing my face on random things could happen.

Um, so, you know, we did that for a while and then I think. I'm trying to remember, like timing I got back on the shower. I really liked being in the shower. My husband would be in the shower with me, and I felt very comforted by kind of like being in my own space and feeling protected. But knowing that like my doula and my mom were outside the door.

Um, so I was in the shower a lot with my husband. And that was kind of like my, my zone. Well, we kept running out of hot water. So eventually it was like nine, I think it was like nine 45 at night, um, at that point. So we were there. Had you gone to triage in the morning around 1145, 12:00 PM. So, um, so then, so the whole afternoon and evening I was back at my house.

So eventually they were like, okay, like I think it's, I think maybe to try to go back and they, I was very nervous and hesitant. Like I'm scared to go back and have them check me and telling me that like, nothing has happened at this point, but they eventually convinced me to go by bribing me with unlimited hot water to the hospital I get in the shower and that water would stop running.

Um, so we. Went back to the hospital. It was a different midwife at that point, which was a blessing. And I got checked again and I was at a five, I think. So they went ahead and admitted me and this hospital that I was at did allow for water birth, but you had to bring in your own like inflatable tub and have somebody set it up.

So my doula went ahead of us to the room that they were going to admit me to and set up the tub. Um, and everything. So this is so cool. We don't have anything like that in Charlotte. It's a very unique situation. They were doing it as part of a study. So you had to like, um, sign some papers and stuff that they were coming in as a part of a study on, um, hospital.

Waterbirds it's so, so cool. Yeah, offline. You're going to have to tell me where you burned that. Um, so. She got the tub set up and everything. And I had to do like a 20 minute strip of monitoring before I could get off of the monitor, sit in the tub and, or do whatever I wanted to do. So I really at that queen, it was kind of a blessing that I had had gone through the triage experience once before, because at this point I wasn't anxious about it and I knew more like how I was going to feel and like mindset wise.

I was just. I'm going to be really focused on them and to get through it. And like I got onto the triage bed and hands and knees. I like literally straps monitors. Yeah. So that I felt like I had some control over it and was just like, focus. I'm going to get through this and we're going to be done. So I was much more focused and kind of in zone and.

Got through that 20 minute piece. And, you know, everybody was really encouraging me to still walk around and things like that to try to get things going before I got in the tub. But I'm really glad I listened to my own intuition on that because I was starting to get tired and I felt like, you know, no, I just, I really need to conserve my energy.

I need to get in. To a good head space and feel like relaxed and comfortable in the room. I need to get in the tub. So I had them go ahead and fill it up and let me get in. And I think that was just really good, cause I was able to kind of relax and, and, you know, feel comfortable and rest my legs because I had been, you know, uh, wanting to move around through my whole labor.

So my legs were getting tired. Um, So we did that for a while. Um, and then I'm sure that at some point in there, you know, I got out and did other things and got back in and I'll really remember. And it's fuzzy once you hit active labor, um, So then around one 30, um, in the morning, I, I do remember looking at the clock because I really thought that she was going to be born on my dad's birthday and they were going to share a birthday.

And I remember looking at the clock and me like seriously, cause like I had gone into labor at midnight on my dad's birthday. And. Then I watched, as it turned into a new day, I'm on the clock and was like, alright, well, this baby clearly wants their own birthday. So around one 30, um, the midwife came in and checked me again.

And I was still at about a five and I said, okay, um, you know, this is where. Being a doula head. I was, I had a little bit of trouble like separating my mind. So I said to her, you know, I, at this point I'd like to talk about breaking my water. And she was like, okay. You know, I would feel comfortable with that, but like, think about it.

I, again, doula hat, like having a hard time separating, it said to my doula, I said, I just, I need you to explain to everybody in the room, what the risks are to this. Cause I knew it in my mind, but I wanted to make sure that my husband understood and my mom understood. So like I had her given the spiel on like, you know, the pros and cons of breaking my water, but I just really felt like, you know, I needed.

Things to, I needed to do something to kind of augment it at that point. Cause I was getting tired and I just had felt the whole time I was feeling so much pressure. And when she would check me, you know, my bag of water was just like really bulging. And I just kind of felt like that, that I just felt that's what I needed.

So I'm around one 30, she broke my water on the bed and I went and got in the shower so I could be kind of upright and it just like. Kicked me right in to transition. Um, so I was in the shower with my husband and just like. Very much, everyone was laughing. At one point we were in the shower and everybody was in the room and they heard me go, you know, all of our other babies are going to be a job.

Yeah. It's really funny because I never do this again, adopt our babies. I can't do this. I don't want to do this. So I was in their shower for awhile and I got back and I really did kind of did go into that Waverly and, you know, feeling, I remember feeling like, you know, I was just kind of falling asleep in between the contractions and just very much in the zone.

I kept saying. Okay. Okay. Okay. Which nobody else really understood, but I knew in my brain that I was telling myself, like, it's okay. You're okay. It's okay. You're okay. But all that was coming out was okay. Okay. Okay. Over and over again. And then I started feeling pushy, but I was at this point, my midwife and my nurse had asked me a number of times to check me and I, I kept declining it because I was nervous about like staying in my head space and not wanting to get that.

Wasn't what I wanted. So I was very glad to be in the tub and feel like I have my own personal space around me. And they had asked and asked and asked and I kept saying, no, I was just like, shaking my head over and over again. No, no, no. And eventually the nurse got a little frustrated with me and was like, we need to know whether or not the midwife needs to stay in here or leave.

And I was like, she can leave. So I like kind of kicked him out and wanted my own space. And. I just, I knew that like my daughter was coming and I, I just, I just, I was so nervous that I was like, not it, wasn't going to be the real deal. And I was just like texting my mental space to think like, it's fine. I can just do this forever.

It'll be good. And so I didn't say anything. And I started getting pushy and my, because my doula was also a nurse. She looked at me at one point and she goes, Was that you pushing during that last contraction? Or was that your uterus and the next contraction hit. And I only got out the word uterus and I was just like uterus.

And she was just like, okay, I'm kind of like looked. And my daughter's head was like right there. And she went out in the hallway and was like, You need to come back in here and the nurse goes, well, if we're going to come back in there, she needs to let us check her. And my doula was like, you're not going to have to the baby's coming out.

Um, so the midwife came in and stuck her hand there and I like grabbed my daughter and pulled her out. And I remember as my, as she was coming, I really had a very strong urge to push kind of like all off fetal injection reflex. Like there wasn't a big pushing things to be noted. And it was like three contractions and then she came out and yeah, so my husband said, you know, I'll announce the sex and you announced the name.

And I was like, you know, I don't know if hold your horses, man. Like this could still be a while. And then she was born and he announced that she was a girl and I announced her name and it was very nice and yeah, everything else. It was, it was a pretty cut and dry experience at that point. I got out of the tub and.

I was going to say, what happens with delivery of third stage of labor with placenta in the water? Did he want you to get out and deliver the placenta and the bed or with this study that you were in? Um, he did have me get out and deliver the placenta on the bed. So I had a few minutes of kind of being in the tub, holding her, my husband, cut the cord, and then he took her and did skin to skin with her.

Um, For a while. And I went to the bed and delivered the placenta and I did have a little bit of tearing. So they had to fix that. That was a little bit hard because for whatever reason, I later found out that my midwife had been literally trained as a midwife in the military and was just very shy about things.

So it took a while to like, get. Me the fixed stuff and everything, the way that she wanted to, which was not my experience the second time around, but I didn't get to hold my daughter quite as quickly as I would have liked, but she was right there and my husband was holding her and I could see her and it was really cute.

He was like singing her songs and, um, it was, it was a really nice experience to just even get to see him interacting with her and stuff like that. So, and then we are postpartum, stay at the hospital. As short as I could make it. Um, so we left, she had been born at three 30 in the morning. So two hours after they broke my water, it's very quick.

And then we were at the hospital until the next, like early afternoon. So we were there that day and then one night and then, wow. And then how cool. Now we're going to take a short break to just share a few things with you. Thanks for listening to this burst story podcast. I am so excited to announce the launch of my book.

Birth story, a 42 week guide for your pregnancy, a collection of these birth stories, a ton of doula advice. And journaling prompts. You can order a copy today@birthstory.com. It also will mean the world. To me, it feels spread the word about this podcast. So on Stitcher or on iTunes, just leave it. Thanks.

Did you encapsulate your placenta? I did. So I encapsulate my placenta. I felt like it was, it was definitely helpful for me in terms of like energy. I noticed a big difference taking it and not taking it in terms of energy and that, so that was really helpful. And nursing wise, it went pretty well. I mean, there's kind of like a learning that learning curve of like nursing for the first time and stuff, but.

You know, we kinda got through that pretty quickly and didn't have too many issues. So I was able to breastfeed her and, um, Oh wow. I was good. I felt, I felt really good after her delivery like mentally and was just like, well, in that birth high and was so happy. And, you know, just, especially since my pregnancy had been kind of challenging, you know, I just.

My postpartum experience with her was it was great, which I'm thankful for on a number of levels because I a great to have a great postpartum experience. Um, but it also kind of gave me a frame of reference for my second postpartum experience, which is not as, Oh my goodness. Oh, okay. I want to get into your second birth, but I want to be mindful of times.

So, um, so I'm gonna do a couple of things for our listeners that may be like on their commute to work or whatever. And, um, I want to know what your favorite baby product was for your daughter. And then we'll do like a bonus if anybody has at time, you know, 15 minutes or so to stay with us because your second was a home birth.

Anybody has time to stick around and the rest of this episode with cm and hear all about her home birth and how she made that decision. Um, but before that, why don't you share with us what your favorite baby product is or was. Yeah, I think my favorite baby product really for both of my children was my carriers.

And specifically my ergo carrier, probably my favorite. I used a Moby wrap a lot for my daughter in the beginning. That was really nice, but I loved. Being able to wear both of them. And it just helped me so much in my like day to day life. But in the end we ended up using our structured carrier more just because it was easier for my husband to use.

And then for my son, it was easier for me to nurse in, which was a big deal since I was also running around after my daughter. So definitely. Yeah, well, I will link to the ergo in the show notes. That was actually the brand that I used to for mine. I went way over their weight limit. Like I have this one picture, whereas like feet are down to my knees and I'm like, I don't even think this is.

You know, it's like 45 bow and then say, but one thing to note about the carriers, especially the ergo carrier is that they have a special infant insert that separate. And so if anyone's listening and you're thinking about getting an ergo, make sure you buy the infant. Insert cause that's an additional head support for your new role.

And I think you used that up until they're like three or four months old, um, and have a little bit more head control so they can sit more ergonomically. I would say about 90% of. Every one of the podcasts says some form of carrier as their baby product, which is pretty cool. So I try to link to as many of them as we can in the different episodes.

All right. So before we get into birth of number two, um, I had a question about your hyper MSS resolved immediately after birth. Yes. Wow. So amazing our bodies. Isn't it. So like you woke up the next morning and we're just now into the postpartum period and that hyper MSS was, you know, in the past. Totally gone.

Yup. Okay. So for baby, number two, you decided, did you decide to have a home birth or was that an accident? No, no. We decided to have, okay. So we have moved in between. These two babies. We were in a different place when I gave birth and like a different city to different city. Okay. I found out that I was pregnant with my son a week after moving into our new house to our new city and my husband had a new job.

So yeah. Six six months old. Yeah. Okay. Um, yeah, so I, I knew pretty much right off that I wanted to have a home birth. A, I had never left my daughter or for any period of time because she was six months old and I just hadn't felt comfortable with that. So I liked the idea of not having to do that for the birth, but also while my, my birth was.

Amazing with my daughter and I loved it. The postpartum hospital stay was just hard. I had been awake for a long time, you know, for my labor and I didn't really sleep in the hospital. I wasn't super comfortable. So by the time I get home, I have been awake for like, 50 hours and was just really tired. And I was like, I didn't want to repeat that.

So the idea of being able to like, be at home, be in my own bed was very appealing to me. So yeah. So my plan had not been originally to have children quite that close together. You know, I, my personal beliefs lend themselves to thinking that, you know, the Lord had a different plan for our lives. And, um, that was good.

But I had had another IUD in place. I had gotten it put in like eight weeks postpartum. Um, it was a copper IUD, and that's what I had had before my daughter was born. So, and it had worked great. So I was kinda thinking. But I was in control of that situation. And then around my cycle had come back pretty early after my daughter was born, like 12 weeks.

So I'd had a couple cycles and then we were moving and I was still nursing. My daughter was six months old and I started for like a week to have like weird headaches and should I was having dizzy spells and I kind of like passed it off as. We were moving in the middle of the summer and you know, I probably wasn't being very good about hydrating and I was nursing and just kind of pass it off.

But I had had some spots. I thought that my period was coming and it never had like into an actual period. I mentioned this to my husband at one point and he was like, I'm sure you're not pregnant. And I was like, yeah,

amazing.

Yeah. It's a very small percentage. If that's what you're looking, I'm like, I want to absolutely know, like, what is the percentage of getting everyone? Then I say that this is my story kind of looks at me with a panicked look in their eye. And I will say again, it worked great for like four years. Before I ever had my daughter.

Um, so it's a very small of people for whom this happens. So, but then once he put that idea in my head, I had some trouble letting that go. Yeah, go ahead. And Google tells me that the IUD success rate is 99.7% efficacy, uh, less than 0.3% chance of getting pregnant. Oh my gosh. How far? So how far along were you?

I was only like five weeks, so still very early. So I. Came. I had to go to the grocery store. My father-in-law was in town, helping us build a shed, um, because we had just moved into this new house and my rest of my family had been in town earlier. So I had gone to the grocery store, pick up some stuff for dinner and was like, well, now he puts this idea in my head.

I just need to not be worried about it. I'll get a pregnancy test. I'm sure it will be negative. Um, and so my daughter is asleep in her car seat and I sat her downstairs and ran upstairs to take this pregnancy test, not thinking that it was going to be positive at all. And then it was, and I had a panic.

Yeah, because the IUD could be very dangerous. Yeah. So I did not, there was no cute announcement to the husband. At that point, I came downstairs, he was outside working and I was like, I need you to come inside. Right. And he was like, what is going on? What I said was I'm pregnant. Um, or anything like that, what I said was you may like, you made me think I was pregnant, the test, and now I'm freaking out is what I said to him.

And he just kind of looked at me and he was like, Are you pregnant? And I was like, yes, I'm pregnant. And now I need you to take me to the doctor to get my IUD. Yeah. So I, I say that. So that people can know that like all ranges of emotions, when you find out that you're pregnant and are normal. And I'm so happy with my family.

And I love my son more than anything in the world, but you know, it was, uh, I was shocked. So. Yes. So I, the next day called, uh, we moved back to the triangle. We have been away from the triangle and moved back. So I had a provider that I had gone to when we lived there before, but we had just moved. So I hadn't, I wasn't like established with anybody.

So I called them the next day. And. Explained to the situation. And they said, you know, okay, come on in. Because when you get pregnant with an IUD still in, there's an increased risk of ectopic pregnancy. So I needed to make sure that, you know, it wasn't ectopic. So I went in. It was an ass because it changes the pH balance in the uterus, which makes implantation difficult, difficult, theoretically 99.7%, 7%.

So we, it was an out-of-hospital birthing center. So I went to them and they, you know, went over my medical history, took another test. It was positive. Um, and they were wonderful. I mean, this was, it was handled. So amazingly well, um, they were very understanding of kind of my level of anxiety. They handled that really well.

Um, they got me an ultrasound appointment immediately at the hospital that was close by to them. So we went right over there and had an ultrasound that was not a topic. It was a very early, so there wasn't a lot to see other than like, they were like, yeah, you're. Uterine lining is thick and that does kind of look like an egg right there.

And at that point, I, I did kind of like panic, but again, they were, I handled it really well and they put us in our own little room while we waited to see the doctor. And we're very, you know, understanding that again, this was a big thing for me to process and I did decide to go ahead and have the IUD removed right then.

So they came in and they removed it. Wasn't a big deal. Um, now there's like an increased risk of miscarriage for like a week or two to following the removal of that, Judy, but I had no problems at all, which was actually better than my early pregnancy with my first, I had had a couple spotting, you know, bleeding  with her, and I had nothing with him at all went really well.

So I contacted the homeless midwife. Pretty much right away. Cause she has limited availability and there's only a couple Meagle home birth midwives in. North Carolina. So I contacted, let's explain that really quick too, because there's only, I think six States in the United States that like limit, um, home and home birth.

And there's such a misconception that it's like illegal to have a home birth. And so will you talk a little bit about how it's not actually illegal? But North Carolina is a state that has a lot of restriction on midwives that are doing home birth. So in the state of North Carolina only certified nurse midwives can oversee home birth.

Um, so that means that they are, they went to nursing school, they were nurses, and then went on to get continuing medical education in midwifery. And this is different from like certified professional midwives who train in midwifery and. Did not go to nursing school first. So, and then on top of that, there's restrictions in terms of like, you have to be able to provide parallel care with an obstetric practice and have relationships with hospitals and things of that nature.

So, because the level of restrictions is high, there are only a handful of midwives in the state of North Carolina that meet all of those qualifications, I guess. Yeah. And so this is important if you're listening and you're considering a home birth, just make sure that you find out what the rules are of your state.

If you happen to be in a state like North Carolina, where there's a lot of restrictions, just know that, you know, it is your right to be able to have a home birth. You just have to be able to work around. Some different things. And then since we're talking about home birth, I'm going to give a shout out.

There's a really good podcast that if anyone's listening to your story and it's kind of like, Oh, I've been interested in home birth. There's the doing at home podcast? D I a H with Sarah and Matthew Bivins, they're incredible. I've interviewed them. I've been on their podcast and then I've interviewed them on this podcast.

So I just want to say that too. So do your research really think about, you know, all of the different things that go along with your specific state and then find the right provider and the right place. You know for you. So, so my pregnancy with my son was very easy, which was a blessing. I didn't have any nausea.

I didn't have, um, any hyper emesis. I didn't have any of that. I had like a couple of mornings where I felt like iffy, but it was totally different where you like, it must be a boy then. You know, I, you think that I would have, but I didn't side to find out his sex beforehand. Cause I felt like I was kind of done with surprises.

So we found that out during our anatomy scan, we had them, we didn't find out. At the ultrasounds, we had them put it down on an envelope and my husband and I went out on a date, the two of us and opened it. Oh, that's such a, yeah. Yeah. So we, um, did know that he was going to be a boy and. Yeah, so my pregnancy was fine.

I didn't have a lot of issues. So, so I'm gonna ask you the same question on this birth of like, okay, on this time, did you have prodromal labor? Like how did you know you were in labor this time? So somehow my predominant labor was worse. The first time I had. Pro drama, labor every day, starting at four 30 in the morning and petering out around three 30 in the afternoon.

Oh, that's long. Yeah. Like every day for two weeks. Um, so it was very long, you know, thankfully I have been through it before or, and I kind of knew, you know, what was happening was, um, I did have my mom come earlier and expected to kind of be there to help take care of my daughter. Cause she was 15 months old at this point.

And it was getting really challenging to like be tired and be huge and to take care of her. And my mom guilt was. Hi on like the amount of time she was spending on the couch with me watching fixer-upper. Um, and I was just like, I need help. So my mom came down and helped, um, the last week or so of my pregnancy and I just kind of dealt with that prodromal labor.

Um, so then one day I was 40 weeks and five days pregnant. Magna two days long with him. My daughter, I woke up at four 30 and have bloody show. And with that was different this time. So I had bloody show one morning had pro drama, labor didn't turn into anything. And then the next morning, 24 hours after having the bloody show, the contractions started.

And again, they felt. More crampy, um, and a little bit different from the prodromal labor contractions, but it was in the same pattern that I had had, you know, for days and days. So I kind of. Was more skeptical at that point and did the thing that you're supposed to do and went back to bed. So I didn't

tell anyone. Don't tell anyone, go back to bed. Don't let your partners. My really good friend, Helen, she has a company are Aussie doula and company, and Helen always says do life until you're doing labor, but she does it in her Australian accent, which is, you know, it's so cute. So true. Right? Like, because there will be a moment where you can't do like, you can, while you can do life, just keep doing life.

Yeah. So I did that. Yeah. Yeah. So I went back to sleep and everything and then around. So I had nurse my daughter through my whole pregnancy, and that is one thing that I liked. If anybody finds themselves in a similar situation, one of my main. Feelings of panic. When I found out I was pregnant again, was thinking that it was going to mean that I couldn't nurse my daughter and I really enjoyed breastfeeding.

Um, I felt like, you know, I wasn't someone who super enjoyed being pregnant, but I did really enjoy nursing. And it was a piece of the experience that was really positive for me. And I was so devastated to feel like that was going to get taken away from me before I was ready. So I like immediately, when I found out I was pregnant, like started pumping, trying to build up a freezer, stash and feeling like I could still get promoted, but actually it was very, my supply did dwindle at a certain point, but it never went away completely.

And. Basically the way that I would describe what it was for me is like my supply stop to being responsive. So like I had a certain amount of milk and when it was gone, it was gone there wasn't like she couldn't day and it wouldn't have increased that I was making, but I still had milk for her. And because she was like six months old, like she was also just consuming solids at that point.

Um, and nursing. So. You know, I didn't have the issues that I was worried that I was going to have, and that's not true for everybody, but I think a lot of people share. That kind of feeling of disappointment. If they think that they can't nurse their pregnancy, but I wasn't able to do that. So she came in around like six or six 30 and nurse, and that really kind of kicked things into higher gear, but I still got up and I went downstairs and kind of made her breakfast and I remember emptying the dishwasher and kind of having to like.

Job and work through contractions and then keep emptying the dishwasher. And because my prodromal labor have been so long and drawn out, I just was like, not wanting to admit to anybody that the real deal cause they didn't want to be wrong. So. But it fine, but it felt different. I knew that it was that I was just skeptical of telling anybody else I didn't want to disappoint anybody else.

So I kind of did that, but I remember then my mom came down and I started feeling very agitated by like the amount of noise and things that were going on. So I went back upstairs to my room. Yeah. Right. So I went upstairs to my room and like put my headphones on. Kind of paced around, listen to some music.

Then at that point I let the Midwest know kind of what was going on. So it was a Friday. And she did prenatal appointments on Friday. So she said, well, I'll come over and check you before I go to the office where she did her prenatal checks. So she came over around nine 45 in the morning and checked me and I was three centimeters, but my son.

Fully engaged. And my cervix is pretty thin. So I was really encouraged by that because, you know, from my daughter's first story, I felt like the biggest thing was kind of getting her low and getting her engaged and then things, you know, pretty quickly, it wasn't so much about a dilation. And so my midwife, like, which is great wisdom and usually true was like, Well, just, you know, prepare yourself for maybe kind of this going on throughout the day.

And then like, maybe things will pick up and I'll have it maybe tonight. And I was like, sure. I said, but also like, remember I told you how things went with my daughter. And like, when she was like down there and engaged, like it went pretty quickly, so could also go like that. And she was like, yeah, but we'll see, like maybe just kind of do your day.

And I was like, okay. So she left at like 10 or like 10 30 or something like that. And I got up and was like, okay, well, I'm going to follow her bison and get ready. So I like went into the bathroom and was trying to like, get dressed and put makeup on. Cause we were going to go pick up like Chipotle for lunch, which was right up the street.

And. I like things just really kicked up like right then. And I definitely like lost any jovialness illness that I had had in between contractions or anything like that. They really intensified. I was feeling like I had to rest in between. So I, I think I have put makeup on, but like, I didn't have a shirt on.

And I was like, not at all. I had never made it like downstairs or anything like that. So I told my, I texted him in my back and he was like, I feel like things are really picking up. And she was like, well, kind of take a walk. And I was like, I don't think you understand, like, I don't have a shirt on and can't manage to make that happen.

And she was like, well, just go. Take a walk on the driveway. And at that point I got like really frustrated and said to my husband, like, get her here now. Like, I can't do this anymore. Get her here. She doesn't understand because she had just been there like, so did you have a doula from before was going to come, but she had to drive cause we have moved like an hour and a half.

Yeah. Okay. So she was not far away. Yeah. Called her and you know, she started to get ready to come. So I got in the shower because I was feeling a little like, uh, anxious at this point. Cause no one was at her end, it was moving quicker than I was expecting. So I got in the shower and tried to calm down and relax.

And my husband went downstairs to start filling up the tub. Cause we had a birth job set up and a space, but because of the layout of her house, it was actually like downstairs. Kitchen and adjacent, not in our bedroom. So I got in the shower and I did, then I started feeling kind of like shaky and I started feeling kind of nauseous.

Oh, I'm interested. Was there because I had, we had sent my mom to go pick up our lunch. So my mom wasn't even there. Like she had our daughter and it was literally just me and my husband. And I was like, On that was his baby. And no one's going to be here, thankfully, that wasn't the case. So I came down stairs.

Cause my husband's like, I need you to come downstairs so I can like pay attention to you and try and get this tub filled up at the same time while doing this. So that phase was a little bit hard because I was kind of like end of active labor getting in transition and I was on the couch, like in hands and knees.

By myself while my husband tried to like fill up the tub. Um, and then the midwives came in, her assistants came in and one of her labor assistants for them certified massage therapist and a doula. And I swear, I will always think of her as an angel sent from heaven because she really kind of took on the role of being my doula, um, and was just.

Phenomenal, um, the whole time through my labor. So she, once she got there, like she was kind of offering me some more support. My mom came back and, but it took me a while to get there. So she came around like one 30, I think, um, in the afternoon. So then there was a stretch where everybody was there. I got into the tub, it was kind of calm.

It was good. And then. You know, I transitioned really hit hard at that point and I hadn't really gotten into a good routine, I think, with coping through the contractions, the way that I had with my daughter. So that was a little bit hard. And then that was. Nervous. It was going fast or kind of well, because everything had been a little chaotic with everybody coming in and all of that stuff.

And because my husband had been focused on trying to like fill up the tub, like we just hadn't. We hadn't been having to like lock into a good rhythm. And I, even though knowing that every birth is different and every baby is different, we're still kind of thinking like I just did this 15 months ago.

Like how, how different could it be? Right. And, but like a lot of the things that have been helpful with her birth were not as helpful this time. So the tub did not provide me the same amount of relief that it had. With her, my husband was trying to do a lot of like hip squeezes and things in those were helpful, but I just was having a really hard time kind of getting to that place where I was more on top of the contractions and coping.

Um, and I had a little bit of a stall around eight centimeters, and I think that that. Was kind of due to his positioning. So he was in a relatively good position, but his hand was up by his head. And then he was like a little bit like his head was a little, yeah. So eventually, so it was just, it was a really good lesson for me to, to experience personally, of like the, um, mental and emotional.

Challenges that you can have in labor. And I just let myself go to a place where I was like, I don't want to do this anymore. I just did this 15 months ago, like over it. Right. Like not to the point where I had forgotten what this felt like or anything like that, and just was being pretty negative. I'm fighting against the contractions a lot.

And like, just not, I wasn't in the best head space during transition. And, you know, went through that for a while. And then finally got to a point where I was like, now I have to, I have to get this under control and I have to make a choice to like, do this and to, you know, Be in it and experience it and not fight it anymore.

And I literally, without telling anybody got up out of the tub and everyone was like, what are you doing? And I got onto the floor in different people, call it different things, but like polar bear position or whatever, where like my butt was up in the air and my. Torso was down on the ground because I had been feeling a lot of pressure and it wasn't a time to push yet.

And I just like got into that position. And eventually we hadn't, we had an air mattress blown up. That's a whole nother story for another time. But again, remember I was down in my kitchen. So eventually they got me on this air mattress and. Covered me up with blankets and stuff. And then the angel labor assistant started doing massage, like sacral massage, basically massaging my butt and it felt amazing.

Um, and I was like, don't ever stop. Like, this is, you are locked in to doing this right now. Um, and I was really like a got in the zone. I got really relaxed and my husband said it was a little unnerving because I had gone from being like super vocal. So just silent and was just completely focused and completely silent.

And, you know, I don't know how long that went on. It wasn't super long, but, and then I literally just felt him descend and it was a very weird feeling that I hadn't had the first time and he just moved down and I was like, he's coming and rolled over on my side and out he came. Um, that was, that was that.

So he was born at. Four 30 in the afternoon. So there was no like, uh, just do your day and we're going to have this Phoebe at night. It was like broad daylight, all the windows in my kitchen, born on an air mattress in the middle of the kitchen floor. Um, where was your daughter? She does the air. Um, so my mom had been taking her all during the day and they had gone outside I'm at the point at which I was like being pretty vocal and stuff.

So they have been playing outside and then they came in right as he was getting ready to be born. And my doula said like, he's not be born, like stay there. So they. Were there and saw him be born. And then, um, my mom brought her over and we have a great picture of her seeing him for the first time and, um, was really sweet.

Sam, will you share some of your pictures from your birth stories with me so I can put them on. To Graham at birth story podcasts. Yeah, that would be awesome. So what number two, did you encapsulate your placenta again? Did, so at this point I have become a certified placenta encapsulate. Um, and I decided I would do it myself.

That is not something that I would recommend to most people. Right. When you're a superposed part of it. Yeah. I felt like it was something that I could do and I had set up like people to help me with like the cleaning and sanitizing, everything so that I wasn't going to have to be on my feet doing that.

But. It was still really hard, but I'm okay. I did. And I took them. I, that was pretty severe postpartum depression after my son. And that was a very new experience. And I think it was just so, you know, physiologically back-to-back pregnancies are hard and hormones were crazy and you know, it was a lot, um, then it was definitely very like, A surreal physiological thing for me.

Cause I had felt like I was pretty fine. And then like he exited my body and I felt like something, my brain just kind of. Shifted and snapped. And so, you know, I didn't necessarily feel like the placenta encapsulation did as much for me that time, but I think it was just because things were so severe. It was just harder to tell the difference.

Um, when did you seek help? Three weeks postpartum. So I, you know, my son had a tongue tie and a lip tie, which was, you know, a different experience. Um, I had, had him looked at like right after birth and it hadn't been noticed. And then, you know, we just went through a couple of really hard weeks of him having trouble nursing.

And then he started losing weight. And thankfully I was still nursing my daughter at this point. So I had a pretty big supply and she was nursing at the same time. So that was also like keeping my supply up. So it took a little longer than normal, I think, to get it diagnosed just because he wasn't losing.

Much weight at all in the beginning, but I think it was cause like, I, I had a lot of milk and I had erected let down. So like he didn't have to try as hard anyway to get milk, but he was just really not transferring a lot of it himself and he would get very fussy and it was just, he was having a hard time and I was having hard time.

So finally, At like three weeks postpartum, I was like, something is wrong and this is not going well. So I took him and had it looked at and had it revised all in the same day. And for me it was an instant game. Like he was, he was another baby within 24 hours of having it revised. Um, and we didn't have any other breastfeeding issues after that.

So kind of once I got through that and then realize that I was still just having a really hard time and I wasn't coping very well and things felt very overwhelming, but I was having a lot of anxiety and what I would call like intrusive thoughts, like that just were not positive thoughts and were not normal, but, um, just kind of not, it was just wasn't doing well.

Um, so I. Literally called because my midwife, um, had a parallel provider with the hospital. I called them and I said, I believe that I'm experiencing fairly severe postpartum depression, and I need to be seen today. And they were like, yeah, you do. Um, so yeah, so I went up, drove up there with my son and, um, and you know, normally I am a person that wants to do things fairly well intervention, but I felt like for me in that situation, the most important thing for me was to get.

To a place where I could take care of myself and take care of my children as quickly as possible. And I decided that I wanted to utilize medication for that, um, in addition to counseling, but I felt like I needed help quickly. So, you know, that was a positive experience for me. And I like to, you know, also just put that out there for people who are looking in that situation and might feel guilty about that.

It was the best decision I could've made for myself and my children. I'm so happy that you are talking about this. About 50% of my clients are on an antidepressant through their pregnancies, and then even higher percentages will go on an antidepressant and talk therapy and, you know, different. Uh, things that we have to help with postpartum depression and postpartum anxiety.

With my second, we have a very similar stories to Sam because mine were 15 months apart. I think something was just different with my hormones. I was like floating on a cloud of joy with the first and then the second one that came crushing down and I did not take a medicine and it is my biggest regret because I suffered.

Until I was done nursing a year later and it was a very, for me, that was my story. When I finished nursing, my hormones changed and the cloud of darkness that had been over me for over a year lifted. But if I could go back in time, I would have just swallowed the pill. So now I like to say to my clients, like if you're open to that, just swallow the pill.

Like I think that was the thing. That's why I was so glad. To have those different experiences and to have had such a positive postpartum experience the first time, because I felt like, you know, I loved that time so much with my daughter and that even in the, even in the midst of the darkness for me, like I kinda knew what I felt like I was missing out on.

And I was just really scared about, you know, missing out on that and not having that time with him. And I. For me, that was a big motivator. And thankfully the medication was really helpful and I started to feel much more normal within a couple of weeks. And then I also, you know, used counseling and, you know, lifestyle things, and tried to make sure that I was mindful about getting help, you know, when I needed it and things like that.

But it was definitely the right decision for me. Yeah, well, I've just enjoyed all of our time together today because we did record two episodes. Like we mentioned, we recorded about support persons and, you know, just all the things that are going on in our world in light of COVID-19. And then we were able to go through your two beautiful birth stories.

So I'm so thankful for everyone that is. It's still listening and stuck around or no, back to it. You know, I do this a lot with podcasts. I listened to part the first bird story, and then I come back for the second. So I'll link to everything in the show notes. And then also we'll have some pictures up of.

See him and her beautiful family. So if you want the story to come to light, um, another cool thing that I can say as we record this podcast is that Sam and I, because we're on quarantine, we are doing this on zoom. And so I recorded it. And so most of the podcasts are just audio on YouTube, but I'm going to go ahead and put our video on YouTube so that you can see our coffee chat.

So thank you so much for being with me today and sharing. And I think it was just. You know, really informative for everyone around. So how does everyone get ahold of you? If they are like, I love her stories. I want to follow her on Instagram. I want to take her classes for, you know, their pregnancy. Where do they find you?

Yeah, so I am on Instagram at Caroline and doula collective. I'm really active on Instagram. So that's some of the best. Places for people to find me. And I also use it as kind of an educational platform for people through pregnancy and birth. And then my website is www dot Carolina doula, collective.com.

So you can also find me there. Cool. Thank you so much. I just appreciate everything that you are saying. Thank you for having me.

Thank you for listening to birth story, Michael, if you will walk away from each episode with a clear picture of how labor and delivery might go and that you will feel empowered by the end of your pregnancy to speak up plan and prepare for the birth you want, no matter what that looks like.